Hello! Welcome to episode 124 of I’d Rather Stay In. This week we are having our second book club discussion!

Quick links:

• Get Black Cake by Charmaine Wilkerson: https://bookshop.org/books/black-cake/9780593358337
• TikTok AI artist: https://www.tiktok.com/@kaellaaaaa?_t=8VR7jpWLhWA&_r=1

Episode transcript

Megan
Welcome to I’d rather stay in with your hosts Megan Myers and Stephie Predmore. This week it’s book club week, and we’re chatting about the book black cake by Charmaine Wilkerson. Stay tuned.

Stephie
Do you love listening to I’d rather stay in and want to support the podcast? Well, now you can visit our website or the link in our Instagram profile and click Buy me a coffee or visit buy me a coffee.com/irssi podcast for the price of a cup of coffee, you can help us cover the costs of creating this podcast. There are no monthly memberships, and you could support us at whatever level you’d like whenever you like, whether you buy us one coffee, many coffees or simply continue listening as always, we’re so grateful for your support

Megan
Hello, Hello. How’s it going? Good. I have been implementing a schedule for myself. But like a real schedule, not just like a fixed schedule floating around fairy dust schedule. I made it in my Google calendar. And I like made little time blocks for things to like, block things off. Yeah, like a real like a real person with a real job. Yes. Um, and it’s going fairly well, it’s going, it’s going? No, it’s going pretty well actually. I even blocked off time for like, exercise. And then I blocked off the same time every day do this one thing. And then I have it, you know, like this time I’ll be doing writing this time I’ll be doing recipe testing and stuff. And it’s going fairly well, because they also smartly put like pads into it. Yes. Where like, I have a block from seven to eight. And then I have nothing from eight to nine. Yeah. And then I have like a nine to 10 block. And then I have like half an hour

Stephie
before I’m throwing around figuring out what your life is doing time.

Megan
Yeah, or like going to the bathroom or making sure I fill my water or things like that or like, you know, getting distracted by Facebook feeds or whatever. The new headline

Stephie
Bennett aprons are distracted by that moment. Exactly.

Megan
Um, so it’s good pretty well, I think The only hiccup that I’ve had is that there’s like one task that I’ve been assigning myself, and I am working on it during that time, except I’m not getting very far. So it’s frustrating because I’m like, I feel like you’re spinning your wheels? Well, because it’s one of those things where you’re like, if I blocked more, if I just spent more time on it, then I would get further along and like but no, because I have the schedule, and I need to get other things done too. So we’ll see. It’s only been a couple of weeks so far. But it makes me feel a lot more productive. That’s good and more organized in general. Even though like last week, I had a writing block. And because school is back in session, I did not go to my preferred writing coffee shop location,

Stephie
because all the damn college students have taken over. Yes,

Megan
I was worried there be too many college students there. Give it like a month and it’ll calm down. So I went to the club one closer to my house. And there’s so much activity at that one. And there’s big windows that face downtown and I just get really distracted looking at every

Stephie
people watching the people watching this good. And it’s hard to not

Megan
Yes, I mean, someone last week walked in without any shoes on. For the question for whatever reason. I don’t know. She had no shoes, no socks, just walked in ordered coffee. Got a coffee she left as soon as you had it. But I was just like, why don’t you have anything on your feet? This is a restaurant. Weird. But that’s why I didn’t get as much done as I would have. Normally Well normally, but at a different place. Yes.

Stephie
Give. Give it a month and the preferred right in place will be less crowded with college students for the most part.

Megan
Yeah. It’s like

Stephie
that first month of school. They’re everywhere. And it’s like anything. Like okay, I give the I give the freshmen a pass because they’re new. They’re new to town, probably they’re new to college. But the upperclassmen I swear to God, it’s like they forgot how to human over the summer and they come back and they it’s like they don’t remember where anything isn’t Target and Target is no longer a peaceful oasis. And the coffee shops are bananas and parking literally anywhere in town is a nightmare. Oh my god. It’s like when you have a gym membership. And the first month of the year is bananas because everyone is like I’m gonna live out my New Year’s resolution dreams at the gym. Yeah, like finally like fall off after a month. That’s what the beginning of school is like. We live in a college town.

Megan
Yeah, that’s, that’s pretty accurate people driving the wrong way down. I was driving

Stephie
home from the restaurant and I had to drive through Isus campus. And it was like, it was like a Friday night. It was probably like 10 o’clock. And I swear to God, I was like, Oh, my God, please stay on the sidewalk. Like it was the first weekend of school. And so I know they were all just going so hard. But these drunk as college students were just like, weaving around on the sidewalk. And I’m like, please do not walk in front of my Subaru. I am just please stay on the sidewalk. I was so nervous. Like, this is not okay.

Megan
That actually happened. I picked up REITs from from school the other day, and we were driving to turn on to Washington, and this boy and girl are walking home from school. And this girl was not paying attention and she just starts to walk and like boy grabs her backpack. I’m

Stephie
surprised.

Megan
They will just look like that. She felt like an idiot. I could tell from her face. But I was like, Oh my God.

Stephie
My car because you weren’t paying attention. Yeah, yeah, I felt that. Yes. I have a story that our friend Kathleen Stone the other day. She was in the car with her three year old daughter listening to Kesha. And it was that song that’s like, I’m a motherfucking woman and like lion comes on. And Charlie goes, Mommy. Did she just say Mother pumpkin? Kathleen goes? Yes, yes, she did. So I now it’s now mother pumpkin. Okay, case you were wondering? Sure. It’s now no longer motherfucking is mother pumpkin. I was like, yep. Kathleen was like, you know, and I don’t usually lie to my kids. But in that case, I was fine. is fine. She wants to think his mother pumpkin. That’s cool.

Megan
She’ll figure it out. But

Stephie
like when she’s 18. I’ll tell her what she really thought what it was. That’s like national pride. Figure it out for

Megan
two years, but Okay.

Stephie
Three year olds. Well, we are going to do our second book club discussion. Yes. So last time we read, what was it tired as fuck yeah, can tired. Really remember that it was tired and tired respond. Um, so since that was a lovely nonfiction book, we decided to go with a fiction book this time. And we wanted to read something by a bipoc. Author. And so we picked black cake by Charmaine Wilkerson, which you had already read. You had like recently read?

Megan
Yes, I had when we decided to choose it for Book Club pod. I had already read it. And I loved it. And I was like, everyone needs to read this book.

Stephie
Well, because I remember the day you brought home from the bookstore, and I saw it and I was like, I need that I need to borrow. So but of course, I just wanted to buy my own car. Sure. Because obviously well, because I wanted to be able to, like take notes and stuff. And I actually may end up using this for my adoption book club, because it’s excellent. It’d be it would be a really excellent choice for that, too. Um, but I also really love this book.

Megan
I do want to preface this discussion with the acknowledgement that you and I are two white women. Yes. And this book is a about the black immigrant experience. Yes, related a lot to colonialism, and a lot of things that go along with that. So obviously, we are not coming from a place of experiencing any of that. So I just want to make sure people know that we are aware.

Stephie
We are fully aware of that fact. Yeah. And I think that this is I think it’s a really important read. For everyone for that, like reason.

Megan
Yeah. And there’s actually I mean, there’s a lot of stuff that I didn’t know, happened. Yeah. So you’re right, I think, I think when people think about like, expanding their experience and learning about the experiences of other people and stuff, they, a lot of the times will go to nonfiction books. But fiction books are also a really great way to learn about those things. Because I mean, fiction is not just made up. Exactly. There’s a lot of history and personal experiences that are woven into books like these.

Stephie
Yes, exactly. Um, you know, I was doing I was like, I did a Google search on the author because As I was trying to see if I could find like a really in depth biography on her. Because her the way that she writes about adoption, this book is really well done. And I’m like, Okay, what’s your connection? Like, I’m trying to figure out like, what her connection because it’s written about in a way, that doesn’t just, most people don’t just write about adoption, like most people who most authors who write about adoption, but they don’t have any personal connection to it. Like, this is not typically how it’s written about. So I’m like, I would not be surprised if she, like, had a relationship with a birth parent who went through a lot of the things that Covey slash Eleanor experienced with, like her adoption story, just because of the way that it’s written about and it’s portrayed is so good. I couldn’t, I couldn’t I mean, I couldn’t find anything. Yeah, more in depth, like anything like that. But I feel like she must have some real, like connections to people who have experienced a lot of these things, because of the ways in which it was written about.

Megan
I think that’s true for it must be true for a lot of the book, because I will say that a lot of the book is very traumatic. There’s lots of trauma going on in the book, but the way that she writes about it. I don’t try to think of how to like it’s not graphic, right, I would say, but she she writes it in a way that you feel connected to what is going on. Like, there’s many times when I was reading this book, where I would read it, and I’d be like, Okay, well, now I have to set it down and like walk away and go do something else for a little while, because it’s so heavy. But it’s it’s beautiful the way that she does it. And that it’s the same thing. What makes me want to like most people can’t tap into that.

Stephie
Yeah, and this is like her first novel, and I’m like, I’m sorry, can we get to get some more out of you? Because, excellent. Like, I’m so excited to see what else she writes. Okay. So before we go any further, do we want to just kind of recap, this is a hard book to just like, do a quick synopsis of Yeah, and I do like, as quick as possible. recap here of what happens in this book, or like what the book is about?

Megan
Yeah, sure. We could try to do that. I think we do spoilers. I mean, I think this is a spoiler. Yeah, this is spoiler podcast. It can. There’s the way that this book is written. It’s really hard to talk about it with out talking about spoilers. So yes, sorry, if you haven’t read it yet. save this for later. Yeah.

Stephie
So yeah, it’s an interesting book, because it switches between, like, present, and then these like flashback stories.

Megan
And between Narrator And yes, and between aerators,

Stephie
which I thought was the way that that was done was really, really well done. We can talk about that in a little bit. But it starts off, you know, right away that there’s these two siblings, Byron and Benny. And they’re, they have been estranged, and their mother has passed away recently. And they’re going into the lawyer’s office, to, you know, hear about the will or whatever. And the lawyers like, Oh, hey, so there’s actually this like, eight hour long recording that your mom did. And she wants you to listen to it. And like, I’m supposed to be here and like, play it for you. And you know what, you’re supposed to listen to it together like her, like their mom had, like some specific parameters around how they were supposed to listen to this. And so for most of the rest of the book, it’s there’s a like a big chunk, probably the first like two thirds of the book is them like listening to pieces of this recording of their mom telling about her life. And then their sort of reactions sprinkled in, and you find out that their mom grew up. She grew up in it doesn’t actually say what Island never refers to Jamaica and Jamaica, I think it’s supposed to be Jamaica, grows up in Jamaica, and they know their mother as Eleanor Bennett. And the story starts off and she’s talking about this girl named cubby and her experiences growing up in Jamaica and she’s got a Chinese father and a Jamaican mom and the mom leaves when she’s like 12 because the dad is an alcoholic and a He has a gambling problem. And the kids are sort of like who the hell is this cubby woman that she’s talking about. And you eventually find out that she is Cubby. And her dad had tried to make her marry this guy who she did not want to marry because he was horrible. And he dies at their wedding reception, he is murdered at their wedding reception. And you don’t know until the very end of the book who actually did it. But she like runs away, like in the midst of everyone be like, Oh, my God, you just fell over dead, she runs away. And everyone except for her best friend. And her sort of surrogate mother thinks that she’s dead. But they help her escape to England, where she goes by a slightly different name, and then ends up taking the name Eleanor Bennett after a tragic accident where her friend dies. And there’s like a case of mistaken identity at the hospital. And she’s like, I’m gonna roll with this, I’m just gonna roll with taking my friend’s name. And she eventually reunited with her childhood love, he changes his identity to be with her, they end up moving to the States having their family, you also find out that before she reunited with her husband, she had a baby, baby girl that she placed for adoption and she never told anybody about her. So a lot of the story is like, setting her kids up to reunite with their sister, which they do end up doing at the end of the book, like after the story is told, they end up reuniting with their sister. And it’s the novel’s called black cake, because Jamaican black cake is served as like a cornerstone of the mom’s, like heritage and childhood, and it’s something that she taught her daughter to make. And she like, it was just this really important part of her culture and her upbringing. And it’s really like plays, it’s interesting how this recipe like, weaves itself throughout the book. And like ties the characters together. And even like the sister who had been placed for adoption, like she had experiences with black cake, even though she didn’t know she was adopted, and she didn’t know her heritage and like all of this stuff, like she growing up had these experiences with black cake. And then at the end of the book, you know, the siblings have a slice of their mom’s last black cake that she put in the freezer and, like it’s a whole thing. And obviously, that like feels like a insufficient, like explanation. But it’s it’s so beautifully told, like the way it’s beautifully told and the way the mom Eleanor is like telling her story and unveiling pieces of her story. I know it’s really powerful.

Megan
One of the things that I liked the most about this book, especially in relation to the cake itself is the connection that Benny and her mom had over the cake and the fact like as you learn more about Benny and her struggles and what led to the estrangement between her and her family. The fact that the cake is the thing that kind of like it almost like defines who she really wants to be who she becomes because she has years of like struggling to figure out who she is what she wants to do with her life. She goes, tries different things at school, she like goes to an art school, she goes to a cooking school, she does all of these things. And then you will she realizes, like the thing that she wants to do is like make foods like this that she grew up making with her mom that tied her back to her heritage that she really didn’t know anything about right, because they never went to her their parents island. They never experiment any of their relatives. They never experienced any of their heritage outside of what their parents gave to them.

Stephie
Yeah, yeah. Because their parents like when they moved to the United States, they had to cut all ties with their home because they were hiding because they didn’t want covey now Eleanor to be like arrested for this man’s murder, right? I knew that she was like the number one suspect. And so they had to change their identities. They had to cut ties. They told their kids like, oh, we were both orphans. And so like their kids just take that as like, oh well. They didn’t really have any family or like any ties. And they like move to California because they wanted to get away from like other Caribbean folks because they didn’t want like it’s such as tight knit community, they were like, Oh, somebody’s going to know somebody that knows about us. And we’re like, recognize us. So we have to get away from that. Yeah. So it was it was interesting how, like, they have this cake, which is like, the one thing that ties them to their culture really, like really ties them to their culture. I mean, it sounds like Eleanor made like other foods that absolutely were, you know, from from her childhood, but it was the cake is the big thing. So and then the way in which when you find out her real story, like the cake is still a cornerstone of it, the cornerstone of their childhood with the like, sort of pieced together stories that weren’t told. And then the real story of like, this cake is a big deal. Yeah, really important.

Megan
I think also, she does a really good job of between the two kids. Kind of contrasting the kid of immigrant experience really well, because we have the one kid who is the overachiever does everything that his parents asked him to do. He does as well as he can to be as successful as possible. And then you have Benny who’s just like, I don’t know, I don’t know what I’m doing.

Stephie
Like she doesn’t feel like she fits in in any very light skinned like her mom. And so she doesn’t feel like she’s fully black. She doesn’t feel like she’s white. She doesn’t feel like she like she’s just like, I don’t know, I don’t fit into anything. Really. she’s bisexual. And so she’s made to feel like she’s a doll. You’re just confused. You don’t know. You know what, you don’t know what your sexuality is. And so she’s like, made to feel ostracized in literally every part of her life. Yeah. So she’s like, fuck it. I don’t know. Like what? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was really, it was very interesting to see that. See how the two siblings just like, loved each other so much. But we’re so very different. To see them like, because you when the book starts, they’re estranged. And so the narrative around is like, Oh, well, we were really close when we were kids. And so it was really interesting to see them come back together, and see them make peace with each other. By the end of the book.

Megan
Yeah, I do appreciate that. While they were still making the piece though, they it wasn’t an immediate like, I think in movies and TV shows. It’s just like, you make up and then it’s fun.

Stephie
Moment, hurray, we

Megan
in the book they like constantly are going back to like, she needs to go be by herself. He needs to go be by like they don’t have it worked out immediately. Yes. And even by the end of the book, like they still don’t have it 100% worked out. They’re still working through it. And that is so understandable. Yeah,

Stephie
I will. And I appreciated that in the way that they talk about marble, who’s the adopted sister. And it was interesting to me because like, we definitely get a little bit of his story told from Marvel’s perspective. But it doesn’t go super deep into like, especially like around the reunification it doesn’t like get to doesn’t go super deep there. And so that’s what makes me wonder if Shar means main experience is with someone on the birth parent side. Because it’s it feels it felt to me like she wanted to include the adoptee but didn’t want to tell a story from an adoptee perspective that she didn’t fully understand. Yeah, is how I read it. And that’s just based on all of the adoptions shit that I’ve read, some of which has been well done, and some of which has not been well done. Right. Um, but even that, like, you know, they have this reunification, and it’s really got its ups and downs, which is extremely, like accurate to many reunification stories like even the ones that go really well there’s still these like ups and downs and questions and on both sides, and I felt like that was told really well, and you know, that isn’t ironed out 100% By the end of the book, they’re not just like this hunky dory now we’re all one big happy family like they’re still figuring out how to exist with this like new sibling and she’s trying to learn how to exist with this new family and, you know, balance the family that she grew up knowing knowing with her birth family, like all of these pieces, they aren’t just it’s not just perfectly like tucked away and like Okay, here we are wrapped up with a bow Yeah, beautiful story,

Megan
I think to the way that she has so she has when Byron and many Meet Marco like, Benny is immediately warmed her and drawn her. Benny’s very suspicious. And I think a lot of it did not just with her, but then when they go meet their grandfather, he’s the one to walk out. And it’s like, I think he’s, I mean, he seems to be the one because I think because his life previously was like, so much on straight and narrow so much about the success so much about doing the right thing. He had his world offended more than Benny in a way, simply because he hadn’t experienced as much trauma already as she had. And so I thought it was like, I thought it was really interesting that Veni, who had been estranged, who had been having all these problems with their family and was just more willing to welcome new people into her family.

Stephie
She was a little bit like, Well, I’m a hot mess already. More hot mess. Where’s like, Byron was definitely like, a while and it was interesting, like the way that he talked about, for example, his ex girlfriend, Lynette right. Lynette

Megan
Yes. Yeah. Um,

Stephie
and like, the way he talked about, like them breaking up and like, well, she just like, left him. And you know, that was on her. And like, yeah, these things of like, he’s like, Well, you know, I’m just trying to be like, the best son that I can be, and the best, you know, marine biologists that I can be and like, all of these things. And so it was interesting the way that like, he finds out that Linda is pregnant after he’s his world has been up ended. And then like, Here, let’s append at some more by like, Oh, hey, you’re about to have a kid. And like, all of these things. And I think if he had found that out beforehand, I don’t think he would have handled it in the same way. Yeah. So it was it was interesting, the timing for him to find out like, Oh, hey, you’re gonna be a dad and like, all of this stuff. Like, I think if he’d found that out before, like, obviously, I can’t say how he would have handled it. But I definitely think it would have been a different outcome, or like handled differently.

Megan
And I think the way that she does this with the switching the narrator’s the way that she has Byron, talking about his relationship, and dealing with his personal stuff, is very different from the way he has been talking about her relationship isn’t her dealing with her personal things? Whereas you, you could tell that Benny does not acknowledge those personal things as much in his life where he hasn’t been forced to previously. And I think the way that she contrasts those two is just really well done. Yeah, I’m just

Stephie
I felt I it’s so very much, right. Like with the different narrators, I felt very much with all of the different narrations and the different perspectives like that. They each of them very much embraced that characters like mindset, because you get from Byron and Benny, you get from the mom, you get from Marble. You get from Mr. Mitch, the lawyer, you get a little bit from Eleanor’s Dad, you get a little bit from perl. You get a little bit from Barney. So like, there was like, you get a lot of different perspectives. And every single one I felt like really was like inside the mind of that character. Yeah, they were all just like different. So I don’t Yeah, I felt like that was just so well done. Yeah, I

Megan
think it’s, it’s really hard to do. And I think not, not a lot of authors even attempt that because it’s so hard to do. And I’m trying to think of another book that has that I’ve read at all that has done that with different narrators. And the only thing that I can think of is like a game of thrones which definitely is not remotely related but I so is it’s those are completely different books of course, but the way that he like writes different narrators it’s just another person with action. You don’t like get a feel for the character the way that you do in this book. Were like in this book like I was sobbing through a lot of this book was I was

Stephie
at the end I was a mess and you know what actually made really made me a mess was the stuff with bunny at the end. Like I when you when you figure out that so she has his best friend bunny growing up on the island, and you know bunny is one of the people that helps her escape. And then like know she’s alive at first but then after this like tragic accident where she ends up taking her friend Eleanor’s name. Like they all think that she’s actually dead this time. And because of like, because she and Bunny like loves to swim in the ocean so much like bunnies like I have to like keep doing this for coffee like for my friends like she’s gone but I’m gonna keep swimming as she becomes this like super famous like distance swimmer. And like there’s a mention of this swimmer at a Pringle like earlier in the book, and then you find out later like, that’s funny. Yeah, and not you find out that that’s bunny you find out that she named Benny for bunny like you find like and then like bunny reunites with the kids like she becomes a really big part of their life like she she gets to reunite with cubby for like a brief moment and she finds out she’s like, all of that had me just like I was like on the floor, a complete wreck. Oh, yeah.

Megan
Because the part where you like meet her before and you like, you see l&r And at a time like they meet and you’re like, Oh, well, you know, she met this murmur. And she was really happy and whatever. Right? And it wasn’t like a big deal. But then when you pull from Byron’s perspective, right, and then you revisit it at the end of the book, where it talks about how they like met and they whispering to each other and you’re laughing and crying.

Stephie
So like that, I don’t know why, like the like, there were definitely other parts in the book that had me like really emotional, but for some reason, it was the stuff with etta slash bunny, that just like made me a complete and utter mess. I was like, Oh my gosh, it’s like she she lived for you know, 50 years thinking her best friend was dead. But she like thought about her. Every time she swiped she carried her in her heart. And that, you know, when you find out that like, Covey slash Eleanor carried her carried her in her heart. She named her daughter after her. I was like, oh, like it just ah, like, and like the fact that you know, at us sort of almost becomes like, I don’t know, the second mother figure to the kids, you know, because she knew their mother so well. And she just like embraces the kids just like yes, absolutely. Like, I love you guys like treats them like her kids. Like I don’t know, it was just so lovely and nice. Maybe that’s the only child and me who like really loves my like Sister friend relationships so what did you think about the reveal the end of who actually killed little man the

Megan
so I, I had I feel I had to guess. I was I was guessing that that Well, I was just waiting because I was like, oh, but like,

Stephie
Well, it’s interesting, because like, the waves frames early in the book, like we know that pearl who made the wedding black cake. We know that she had this bottle of poison. And that she’d been kind of thinking about like, should really like, give Covey a way to like, get out of this. Like, we need to get rid of this guy. But you never find out like what she did with it. And you know that bunny knows that something’s going on. And you know that Covey knows that something’s going on. So you’re sort of left with these three women. And like I had a feeling it wasn’t Covey. But you just don’t really know like, Okay, was it like, who was she protecting? Was it Perl? Was it funny? So then at the end to like, find out like, what actually happened? I thought it was just I thought it was revealed in a really lovely way.

Megan
Yeah, I thought I thought it was really well done. But I did think when I was reading it as it got closer, maybe toward the end and but like when they keep going back to what happened that night and they’re talking about it and you learn as you like, learn more about the girls and stuff. I’m like, You know what? She was very clumsy. So I wasn’t like surprised, necessarily, but I was like, it makes sense. Especially because because of the way that she keeps her in her heart. Yeah. After all that time like it made a lot of sense to me. Yeah. And because also like, it’s not really talked about a lot, but that she was like in love with her on a romantic level. And so like, Of course you would do that for the person you love. Yeah. So

Stephie
yeah, yeah, and

Megan
the only thing secret Yeah. The only thing that made me sad in this book because I Didn’t happen was that she never got to connect the coffee never got to reconnect with her mother. Oh my god, that was like heartbreaking because

Stephie
I was like, Okay, do it. Are we gonna ever gonna find out what happened to the mom and then you find out that the mom like slipped and fell and Niagara Falls and like no one knew she was gone until they like find this body and that the lawyer is the one that just like pieces it together. I was like, Oh, yeah. Oh, my God, it was so sad.

Megan
So sad. That’s just that’s the only thing and I was like, I mean, it’s, it makes sense in the context of the novel, but I’m just know, she needs to know. And

Stephie
it makes sense like to just further drive home. Because like, when you find it out, like, the way it’s told is like, you know, this that she had been a, you know, she was a black domestic worker. And nobody was really going to be concerned with her disappearance, and was no one was really going to want to go find her like care enough to go find her. Yeah, you’re like, Oh, hmm, she disappeared. Well, we’ll hire somebody else. So like, That’s why her death was never investigated. her disappearance was never investigated. And so it just like further drives home. Like, how disposable black people are, like we’re and still continue to be. And I think that you know, the way that Byron talks throughout the book about how because he’s really dark like his dad, which really contrasts with Benny’s experiences of being really light skinned. That He talks so much about his experiences of like being pulled over by the cops. And like, how he’s just constantly worried, like, what’s going what can happen, what might happen, like all of this stuff? And like feeling very his feeling very disposable in that way. So I felt like I feel like it was necessary for that to happen. Like just to further drive that home. Yeah, but it made me really sad.

Megan
What did you think of marbles? adopted family? Oh. As an adoptive mother,

Stephie
God, you know, I just like

Megan
also keeping in mind, I think, I don’t know exactly the

Stephie
year. So she was born in like, 70

Megan
I think. Yeah, that’s yeah, that sounds around that time. 69

Stephie
I think it said, I think she said she was born in like 1969. So very different. Very, very, very different time period. Um, well, you know, I thought it was really interesting, because she really said the quiet part out loud in his book, which is again, what I was really impressed by how because it is it’s rare for a book to talk about adoption that is not written by an adoptee or a birth parent, too. Be so like, accurate and like say the quiet parts out loud. Um, it says bla bla bla bla bla bla bla it was on page Oh, there’s not page numbers on every single page 262 Because money talks to Solow infant girl born in the winter of 1969 to an unwed secretary from the West Indies, was not given up for adoption through the official channels, but was transferred instead directly into the hands of a well off London couple who had paid the home for unwed mothers handsomely for the privilege, Wanda and rondo. Ronald Martin did not think of it as buying a baby. They thought of it as speeding up the process. I’m like, nobody talks about that stuff. Right? It’s very rare for like a novel of this type, to say that stuff out loud. And that absolutely happened and still happens today. And so I very much appreciated the ways in which she, she Charmaine talked about that. And did not make you know, she didn’t mince words there. She was, like, yeah, they basically they bought their baby. They, they went through these, like channels, so that they could get in a baby faster. They didn’t care. They were gonna raise her as they wanted to raise her there. You know, they didn’t tell her that she was adopted. They just they hit her. They hid her heritage. They like did all of these things. And so like, as much as it made me want to scream, because it’s just so unethical and so gross. Like you also have to recognize like that was real for the time period, and unfortunately, that shit still happens today. Yeah,

Megan
it does.

Stephie
It’s less common, but it still happens today. It’s funny, I was on Tik Tok yesterday and this video Yo came up. And it was like, I can’t remember if these people who like read crazy shit off of Reddit. And the thing that they were reading about was like this woman writing, she was like, Ah, so I just found out my boyfriend of six years is actually my brother. And it turns out like, they were both adopted, they didn’t find out, neither of them found out that they were adopted until they were like, in their teens. So they really bonded over that, and blah, blah, blah. And then they like, did DNA testing to like, find out they’re at like, their, their cultural heritage, and then it came back and was like, You are 100% siblings, like full siblings. And, and I was like, This is why

Megan
that’s why you have to have to tell people,

Stephie
and why openness is so important. Because like, you don’t want your kids to just be in a relationship with their cousin or their sibling. And not know because like, that’s just added trauma. Like, I was so sad. For the couple as I was like watching that Tiktok like, my heart was just breaking for them. Because like that they already experienced all of this trauma. And now they have this added trauma of like this person that they thought was their person for the rest of their life like their soulmate. Oh, by the way, it’s your sibling. Yeah. Like, so like, it’s like that kind of stuff where I’m, you know, in this book, like, I don’t we’re just lucky that marble didn’t like, I don’t know, meet Byron and let him fall in love. Like, you know, like, they’re right. Shit. Like that could have happened. Yeah, it’s only because she lived in London like that. It didn’t like all this stuff. So

Megan
yeah, it’s weird to think it’s on the one hand, it’s weird to think now to be like, Oh, the 35 years, they just lied to her. Like a person who looks completely different from her parents. They were just like, oh, you know, you just just from your grandpa’s from your grandma, you look different to you like, but like it’s it’s wild to me that that would have happened except the fact that it did happen did happen. And it does time and I can’t it’s do you think now that there are people are still like, keeping a secret for like that that long? Even though it’s so easy to find out now?

Stephie
Yes. That’s crazy. I mean, they definitely try.

Megan
Also, I think the way that when she finally when she does confront them, there were like, the way that she’s arranged like the who’ve been worried about this for for years, and what would happen like Tao the truth?

Stephie
Right? Right. If you tell the truth, you’re not going to be as fucked. Yeah. Well, and you know, and

Megan
you could have handled it in like a much more caring way other than her being contacted by the other people being like,

Stephie
right. And I mean, she definitely was already suspecting that something was up because she was like, I do not look like these people. Or something. I’m a smart person, like, right, like, you know, and she definitely kept like, trying to get them to tell her the truth, and they just wouldn’t and like all of this stuff. Yeah, I don’t know. It was a no, I wish. It also made me sad that Eleanor and marble actually never got to talk to each other directly. Yeah. Because Because Eleanor was so scared of like, gosh, I don’t want her to hate me. Like she because she was a product of rape. She didn’t want that to like be added trauma for her. Like she just loved her so much. That she was like, I don’t want to upset her applecart any more. Yeah, I don’t know. It was just really. It made me really sad that Eleanor, even 50 years later continued to believe the lies that she was told in the maternity home, which, again, is extremely common. Yeah, it’s extremely common for women who were forced to place their babies for their babies taken from them stolen from them, that they were told these lies and they believe them to their dying day. Yeah, it’s super common. But it doesn’t make it any less sad. You know, I’m just like, Come on. Please, please, please recognize your value in her life. Like she recognized like yes, she needs to know the truth and she needs to know where she came from. But like, she just never was able to. to drum up the self worth. That those those people in the maternity homes stole from her. Yeah, believing that she was good enough for her baby. And like my God, that just that just broke my heart. broke my heart.

Megan
Thanks, church.

Stephie
Yeah, yeah. So I don’t know, I definitely had, you know, like, I’ve talked about this, we’ve talked about this in my adoption book club. Because it’s, you know, a lot of adoptive parents and everybody that comes to my book club is amazing. And they’ve like, done the work. And so when we read stories like this, for example, like, we’re all just like, oh, let’s fucking adoptive parents, we also have to, like, take a step back and be like, okay, it was the 70s. And we didn’t know what we know now, which so many didn’t? Like, would that have been us? Right? So like, it’s hard when you’re when you are like, Oh, my gosh, those people are so shitty. And like, I’m not saying they weren’t shitty. But also like, sometimes you have to take a step back and be like, oh, man, if I didn’t have access to the education that I have, would I have done something similar? You don’t know what you don’t know. You don’t know what you don’t know. So I’m not saying that excuses their behavior, but it definitely like, you definitely see this, like how important education is in adoption to know that Yeah. Okay. This is this is definitely not how we discovered that the appropriate way, and you definitely should not be going through like underground channels to like buy a baby. That’s not that cool.

Megan
Yeah. I mean, that should definitely be like red flags.

Stephie
Yeah, yeah.

Megan
So we decided that we needed to have some

Stephie
black cake. Yes. So because I’ve never had a black cake. I haven’t either. I actually didn’t know really what black cake was before I started reading this book, which I was like, first, I was like, embarrassed by it. And then I was like, Okay, well, most, most of my black friends are African American, or, like, African. So I don’t know, I don’t really have a lot of like, Caribbean American friends. So I’m like, Okay, I probably wouldn’t have just come across it in my like, regular everyday life. But black cake is. It’s like a, it’s a it’s interesting to me, because I’m because I found a recipe from our blogging colleague, Tanya. And it’s her family’s recipe and had a ton of really great reviews on it. So I’m like, Okay, I trust you, Tanya. And it’s interesting because I was making it and it reminded me a lot of making, like my family’s fruitcake. And I was talking to Alex about it. And I was like, I would not be at all surprised if southern fruitcakes sort of came out of this black cake tradition. I’d have to do more research to figure that out. But like, it wouldn’t surprise me like, at all.

Megan
Well, I didn’t. I feel like it’s since southern fruitcakes come. But like, there’s also because there’s also British fruitcakes. So like, is it partially like Britain, the colonists coming to the Caribbean? Right, bringing theirs there?

Stephie
It’s hard to say it’s hard to say like, what influenced what I’d have to like, really dig into the history, but I feel like there’s probably a good bit of everything influencing each other. A little bit there. Yeah, right. Yeah. But they’re the recipes. I mean, like it’s definitely a different recipe, but it wasn’t that dissimilar. Yeah, to making like a Southern Style fruitcake. So, yeah, so I made it. And we’re gonna do a little taste test here. Yes, we felt like That was a very important thing to do. Obviously, we have to get the full experience course.

Megan
So we’re gonna get a plate. Okay, so it’s a little bit we’ve cut into this cake. It’s a little bit different from what I would normally think of a fruitcake, because it’s the fruits blended. Is that right? Yes.

Stephie
So you take a bunch of dried fruit, and you pour alcohol over it. So in the book, they use a combination of rum and port, I think. And our friends recipe uses sweet dessert raw wine. She was like, even just she’s like, I just use Concord grape Manischewitz. Which was very funny, because then I had to go to the liquor store, and I couldn’t figure out where it was. And I like the lady’s, like, Can I help you? And I was like, Well, I have a question. You probably don’t get every day. Where’s your Manischewitz? She goes? Yeah, I don’t get that question every day you are correct. Um, so I that’s how I used but I think it just maybe depends on the family and as to what alcohol use but yeah, so you soak the dried fruits and alcohol for at least five days, but you can also soak them for like,

Megan
ever. Yeah, in the book. She just kind of like has a jar that she just always has filled

Stephie
up with. Yeah. So yeah, you You blend you puree it together and so the dried the soaked the soaked fruits, you like puree that. And then it goes into the cake, which actually has bread crumbs in it, which was really interesting. And then, um, the thing that makes it black is burnt sugar, which I did not make myself because since I’ve never had black cake, I did not want to do two things I had never done before. Right. So Tonya had a link to like where you could buy the burnt sugar and then the Browning sauce or whatever. And so those are the two things that like give it the black color. So like in like a Southern Style fruitcake, it would use like molasses. So the burnt sugar is like a little bit similar in like giving it that darker color. But yeah, that’s what gives it the really dark color. But yeah, it’s more of like, and she said it’s a little bit almost like a texture of like a steamed pudding.

Megan
Yeah, because you bake it

Stephie
for almost three hours.

Megan
Oh my gosh. 250. Okay,

Stephie
yeah. So it spikes really low and slow. Yeah, that’s and then you so you know, when it’s you pop it out of the oven. You let it cool in the pan for like 20 minutes, you turn it out, and then you pour a little bit more of the the alcohol on top and let that soak in while it finishes cooling overnight. So that was the process. Should we taste ready? Yeah.

Megan
Is really, really moist, very moist. It’s definitely like a pudding. And is a very sweet and very fruity. Mm hmm. What kind of fruit did you use?

Stephie
Dried? Dried Cherries, raisins and prunes.

Megan
Okay, yeah, I feel like I can definitely taste the cherry in there.

Stephie
It’s really good. And that was the combo that Tonya uses and recommends I would imagine that their other families maybe use different, like maybe dates or I don’t know. But that was I was like, I’m following this recipe. Exactly. Because I don’t know what I’m doing and rice do Tanya. It’s really good. It’s interesting, because they talk about in the book like this is like a very traditional, like holiday cake. But they also use it for weddings and stuff. And that it gets covered in like fondant and they do like really intricate, like flower decorations. But they mentioned in the book that they cover it in marzipan before it gets covered in the fondant because it’s like so moist. Yeah. Which totally makes sense.

Megan
Yeah, I think there’ll be it’d be really good with marzipan. vond It is disgusting. But marzipan has good. marzipan is

Stephie
delicious. I will take no arguments there.

Megan
Yeah, well done. Thank you, Tanya, for this recipe.

Stephie
Yes, we will link it in the show notes and on our Instagram. Because it’s great if you are interested in giving it a try.

Megan
So other than this cake. Do you have any final thoughts about this book?

Stephie
Everyone should read it.

Megan
Everyone should read it. It is fantastic. Like we said, we both cried a lot. I would say there’s a lot of trauma warnings going into it. Just know that like there’s a lot of trauma that happens in this book. Yes.

Stephie
Especially if you are a person of color. Yeah, I feel like there’s like added like, take care of yourself. If you want to read this book.

Megan
Yes. Um, so you might need to take it slow. The chapters are pretty short because of the way it’s written. So that works out pretty well. If you need to take breaks. I did also see that I believe this has been optioned for a TV show.

Stephie
Yeah.

Megan
But I may be making Yeah, so I’m not sure how you know how far along in the process that is. That’s really exciting. I’m very curious. I don’t fuck it up. Right. I’m very curious about how they’re going to do it and hope they do it really well, because it’s it’s such a beautiful book. And I’m glad that it’s being an option for one because it means more people will read it. And it’s just such a wonderful tale of the experience of black people and Caribbean immigrants and I am really glad that’s giving recognition that it deserves

Stephie
Yeah, and I can’t wait to see what else she writes. Yes, yeah,

Megan
cuz this was your first book. Yeah, girl. can be more

Unknown Speaker
right. Yeah. Amazing.

Megan
So Stephie what else is bringing you joy this week?

Stephie
Hmm? Isn’t that a great question? I love that question for us. So next week we are early next week, we are hopping up to Chicago and doing our family pictures with Edie’s birth family. We did that last year. And we’re doing it again this year. So I’m very excited about that. And I ordered a bubble machine. So that at the very like, end, we can do bubble pictures with a little girls. And I’m very excited about how excited they’re going to be about this. I’m not sure there’s anything my child loves more than bubbles. So she is going to be extremely excited.

Megan
Plus, the fact that you are going to be out of town means that you have to pack clothes to bring with you. Which means you can control what your husband wears.

Stephie
Yes. Although he’s supposed to go today and like buy something. We’ll see. We’ll see. Yes,

Megan
I’m sure other listeners understand this. This plate of you know, trying to get your your whole family to look nice for family photos. Yeah.

Stephie
Like I feel like when you do family photos, you just mostly want to kill each other when you’re like trying to get ready for them. And then by the time you get to family photos you like everyone will like you like each other. Oh my god,

Megan
accurate? Oh, yeah. Last year when we did them, or it was that last year or two years ago, that was that was last year. My teenager wore pants that were slowly too short for him. And then he didn’t wear socks that were long under his boots. So he has some shots where he’s sitting and you can just see like, oh, three inches of his ankle. not dressed properly. And I’m just like, okay, whatever. Sure. It’s, it’s fine. We’ll just crop that.

Stephie
There’s stuff you fight and then there’s stuff for you go home. Okay, that’s gowns. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. Yeah. Well, I did. I did tell Alex he needs to like not look like, we just found a homeless man that we asked to join our pictures. So I will pull his hair back for him. Whew, I will make him trim his beard. hoping he can I just just I was like, you know, maybe he’s got some really nice shirt and chinos. He’s like, I’ll just go to Kohl’s, whatever, I don’t care, just get something. Just get something that’s on a t shirt. I haven’t yet told him that he’s not allowed to wear it’s Burks, but

Megan
maybe he’ll get a clearance shirt, but I’m just on it. Well, you know,

Stephie
I actually do need to tell him that he needs to not get anything to patterned because Ed and I are wearing matching dresses that have oranges on them. Actually, it’s all sorts of things. So you’re wearing like pretty patterned outfits. So I should tell him to not get too solid colorless. And that you know, the thing about my husband though, is that he is actually very capable of dressing himself nicely. Like he has a good sense of fashion when he wants to. He just doesn’t want to mostly to wear the same shit every single day and look unkempt. So there’s that was bringing you joy.

Megan
So I found that this person on Tik Tok the other day, the other day yesterday. And she I don’t know if you’ve heard about this, there are AI programs out there for making art. That, yes, so one of my one of my friends has been really into this. And he’s been making these absolutely crazy artworks with these AI programs. And I really don’t understand how it works. But like, I think maybe I think you give them prompts or something and it like makes the art or something like that. But there’s this woman who has a bunch of chronic illnesses and I can’t remember what they all are. But she has been feeding into her AI art program different chronic illnesses. And it’s like a visual creature of what the illness looks like, oh my god, I love that and they’re amazing. And she’s working on like, trying to get art prints set up for it so that she not that she like she’s not trying to make money or anything but she wants to make sure that like she has the copyright for it, which she like lets people get the images and stuff right but they’re all amazing. She’s got I think she’s done like a five part series on about now and it covers a wide variety and you’re looking at some of them and you’re like yes, that is what it feels love that. That’s amazing. So we will put that a link to her her account in the show notes because I’m so yeah, I look really cool. I’m thinking like, what if I get one of these and like put it on the wall would people be freaked out but it looks really cool. Maybe I need a visual visual representation of like, I don’t know, I can’t think of what one I was gonna think of getting no, but they had the they she does have one for ulcerative colitis. And I was like, yeah. Like, I don’t really know what it feels like, obviously, but from what I’ve heard, yeah.

Stephie
Can we have one for oh, I guess I know what my other joy is. How did I forget this? I’m gonna get my uterus ripped out. I’m so excited.

Megan
I thought maybe you were just waiting to talk about it until it happened. No, I

Stephie
Oh, fuck is happening. happening. It is scheduled. It is fucking happening. Yeah, I scheduled a hysterectomy for the end of October. And I’m really excited. It’s very exciting. It’s very exciting. I’ve been wanting this for a long time. So it’s funny because like, all of my friends, like know, all my struggle. So when I like texted or like, instead of being like, like you’re choosing this really invasive surgery. They’re like, No, I’m so happy for you. This is great.

Megan
I mean, I think every woman is like, yeah.

Stephie
Get it out of there. Don’t let the door hit you on the

Megan
way out not using it. Why do I have it?

Stephie
Right? Like what? My appendix right mine is particularly useless. Like it just causes me issues. Goodbye. That is get an AI image of that happening.

Megan
Awesome. Can’t wait to hear how it goes afterwards. I mean, it’ll be it’ll be a while because obviously it’s not till October and then have recovery and things but it’s exciting. It is exciting. So we will be taking a week a little bit of a break a little week off and then we will come back with a new episode about the pink tax.

Stephie
So until then, listen to us on your favorite platform and be sure to rate and review us on Apple podcasts. You can follow us on social media at IRSIpodcast or send us an email at I’d rather stay in podcast@gmail.com We’d love to hear from you.

Megan
Bye

Transcribed by https://otter.ai