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064: Burnout

Hello! Welcome to episode 64 of I’d Rather Stay In. Burnout is a big topic of discussion these days, so this week we’re diving right in and discussing what it is and how we cope.

Quick links

Article: Depression: What is Burnout?

Article: Burnout Symptoms and Treatment

Article: Is it Burnout or is it Depression?

Article: Depression and Burnout

Hilarious finance reels from Chloe Daniels

Episode transcript

Welcome to I’d rather stay in with your hosts Megan Myers and Stephie Predmore. This week we’re chatting about burnout, what it is and how you can cope. Stay tuned.

Hi, I’m Megan. Hello there. What’s up?

Okay, we just had the time change.

Yes sucks.


my pets seem to think that the time change actually means that gets even earlier. striding around like 330 they both get super antsy and are just like, it’s time to eat dinner now,

you’re like, it’s never been dinnertime.

It’s never been Time to eat at 330 or 230. Previously, in the day, so you can be quiet and lay down again. I don’t know what’s going on. But Ever Ever since the time change. I feel like they’ve been like, hey,

hey, hey, hey, p me. Wait me feed me.

I could just be extra hungry. I don’t know. It’s weird with animals because you know, you’re supposed to feed them a certain amount of food. Yes. And even if they like seem like they’re hungry, because they’re animals, and they would literally eat any food that I would give them.


So I feel like a monster because I’m not giving them food. But at the same time. They’re not supposed to have more food.

Unless that unless the animal is Royce or German shepherd who we have to practically beg to eat most of the time. So some days he’s like, I don’t need to eat. It’s fine. I’ll just starve and some days he’s like, I will eat all the things. So when he’s having an eating day, I’m like, you can have as much as you want, but

your pets are weird.

Oh my pets for many reason. Weird. Oh, they’re the weirdest.

I mean, Anya is like the daintiest eater who like goes and gets one little piece of kibble. She could bring light into the room, wherever you are, and then in front of you, and then go get another one.

She does not like to eat by herself. So yeah, she’ll go in the kitchen to her bowl. She get like a tiny little mouthful of food. And then she’ll like bring it into the living room if that’s where you are actually like, drop it on the rug and eat her little mouthful of food and repeat it 300 times. So weird.

It’s I always thought it was weird to whenever I would go to your house and there would actually be like food in the bowl. Oh, yeah. Because my dog is like, oh, you’re feeding me. I it is gone. No.

Well, I grew up with beagles. And they will eat anything and all of it.

Yeah. And

so it’s it was very weird when we first got Royce and we were like, Okay, this dog like does not eat. Like he is. I mean, he’s like physically small for a male German Shepherd. Anyway, he’s like about the size. He’s honestly on the smaller size for a female German Shepherd. He’s just a smaller dog for the breed. And we I remember, we haven’t had him super long but then like he’s also skinny. So you add that into it because he doesn’t like to eat. And I we took I took him to the farmers market one time and there was a female German Shepherd there that was easily like one and a half times his was like, oh, buddy, you’re so tiny. He’s like

a three year old who exists on air and crackers.

Yes. Yeah. And sometimes chicken nuggets like


yeah, are our animals are real weird. bless their hearts.

What have you been up to?


you know, not a whole lot to be completely honest with you. I was just reading before we hopped on to record I’m reading what Alice forgot. Um, like, maybe two thirds of the way through. It’s really good so far. But I’m still trying to figure out what all of what Alice forgot. So

yeah, they don’t really reveal it to like the very like, very, very end. So

which I love that I love when I can’t figure it out. But I’m also like, God


So, yeah,

I am looking forward to your text when you finish the book.

I promise I will text me and be like so anyway, that’s my big news, you guys is really exciting times over here. It’s fine.

I mean, there’s nothing wrong with reading the book.

No, sometimes you just need to read a book. Sometimes you just need to read a book. Yeah, sit under your weighted blanket and read a book. It’s all good.

It’s all good.

So this week, we’re talking about burnout. Because I feel like it’s a thing that a lot of people are experiencing right now. Absolutely. We’ve got pandemic fatigue, we’ve got burnout happening. It’s just there’s a lot of feelings happening.

There’s a lot of things going on at one time. And it’s hard to know, you know, what, what all these feelings are tied to, you don’t necessarily want to categorize them. Right. But because there’s so much going on, I feel like talking about burnout, and we’re going to talk a little bit about how burnout is different from depression. And then kind of how all of the the pandemic has played into this kind of really thrown a lot of people for a loop. Obviously, it’s been an entire year of, of weird life. And I think anybody who has been able to get through with out any sort of mental frustration, as I don’t know what you’re doing person out there that may or may not exist, but

if that’s you, please email us. Work curious about what your secret is.

Please tell us all the tips. Yeah,

we need to know, we really need to know,

let’s start out with basically defining what burnout is. Yeah, so

I did some research on this. And the term burnout is actually like, relatively new. It was coined in the 70s by an American psychologist, his name is, I don’t know if I’m going to say this, right? I’m gonna say his first name, right? I don’t know if I’m gonna say his last name, right. His name is Herbert freudenberger. Um, and he coined the terms really talk about the high levels of stress in quote, helping professions, so like doctors and nurses, because obviously, those are professions where you really like sacrifice yourself for others and, and up in this like burned out state. But since then, has come to be used across many different professions. So not just those like helping professions, although, I would guess that it is still probably a little bit of a higher rate of burnout in those helping professions. And I’ve read a couple of things that we’re seeing that experts really can’t necessarily agree on how to define burnout. Because there’s like a wide array of symptoms. And so it’s not exactly clear on what it is and how it can be diagnosed. And so no one can really say how common it is. It’s things where you read this and you’re like,

ah, huh.

Um, but it’s thought to be most typically work related. And there are some main things that have been kind of identified to come along with burnout. So those things are exhaustion, both physical and emotional exhaustion of just feeling completely drained and unable to cope, and not having the energy to get things done. There can be physical symptoms that come along with that, such as like headaches or stomach aches, and like other intestinal issues, feeling alienated from your work activities. So feeling that your job is just increasingly frustrating feeling cynical about your work or your colleagues, distancing yourself purposefully from your co workers, or subconsciously from your co workers like feeling kind of just numbed out about work, and then reduction in performance. So obviously, if you’re not feeling great about work, and if you’re super exhausted and experiencing all these physical symptoms, you may find it really hard to concentrate on your tasks and your overall performance can really suffer just due to that lack of being able to concentrate. And apparently, there is a 2018 report by Gallup that identify sort of five main Causes of burnout in the workplace. And I thought these were really interesting. So unreasonable time pressure. So not, you know, employees who are saying they just don’t have enough time to do all of the work that they need to due to his lack of communication and support from your manager, because a really good manager will often offer a bit of a buffer against stress. And if you don’t feel like you have great communication or support from that manager, you’re probably feeling a lot more of that workplace stress. Three is lack of role clarity. So if you don’t really know what’s expected of you, you can often just feel like everything is a moving target. And that’s going to just completely exhaust you a lot faster. For is unmanageable workload. So when you just feel like the amount of work that you have to do is completely unmanageable. Even if you’re a super optimistic employee, you’re going to start to just feel completely at a loss and overwhelmed. And then five is unfair treatment. And it says employees who feel they are treated unfairly at work are 2.3 times more likely to experience a high level of burnout. unfair treatment may include things such as favoritism, unfair compensation and mistreatment from a co worker, which I thought was interesting. And I didn’t dig a lot deeper into this. But I would guess, based on that information, that women and minorities may experience higher levels of burnout. If that is one of the causes, I would,

I would definitely assume so. We know

that women and minorities are underpaid, just like categorically statistically underpaid, and undervalued in the workplace. So if being underpaid and undervalued and treated unfairly lead to burnout, then it seems like it would follow that those groups of people would experience more burnout. But again, I didn’t like dig into that for any studies or statistics. That’s just my own logic.

So I think it’s interesting that there are so many different symptoms of burnout, because I think a lot of people automatically tie it only with the exhaustion part of it. And they, like I definitely did not know about this simply have the feeling alienated from work related activities part of it. Yeah, maybe this like maybe that the job is stressful part, but like, with like, cynical thoughts about the workplace or distancing yourself from co workers and stuff, I would not have associated that with burnout.

Yeah, I don’t think like if you had asked me before I researched and really looked into it, I don’t know that I would have told you that those things would be connected. But now that I know that I read about it, it makes sense, right? Like, again, if you’re feeling like you’re undervalued, if you’re feeling like you’re overworked that you don’t have enough time that you don’t have the support that you need. Like those are all things that are just going to like super drain you and just lead to a less positive viewpoint about your work and the people that are around you and the things that you have to do. Even if it’s like somebody that’s supposed to be fun, like a, like a super casual, happy hour with your coworkers or something. Back when that was the thing.

super casual happier with the co workers, it’s actually very stressful because you have to figure out if you’re going to go and who’s going to be there. And if you need to change your clothes, and how long you need to actually stay before it’s okay if you leave. These are the casual

things that are casual and fun for extroverts, and really easily anxiety inducing.

It’s fine, everything’s fine.

And maybe I don’t know, maybe introverts experience more burnout. I have no idea. I didn’t look into that. But

that’s actually that would be interesting to look at because I would almost think that introverts would have maybe a better time dealing with it. Partly because introverts are so used to internalizing everything anyway. And kind of dealing with their own problems and We could go in through their day a little bit. Yeah. So I almost wonder if like we are we automatically protect ourselves a little bit more than an extrovert might. Where they would definitely need more vocal support from managers or co workers? I don’t know. That’d be interesting.


There’s a study out there for that.

Yeah. Anybody that’s listening that wants to do a study on this? Go for it. And let us know what the answer is. Like, they were like,

go do this thing. We don’t have any money to give you for grant No.

But we would be really interested to

go do your peer review, study and come back.

So okay, so you know, we’re looking at like exhaustion and physical least physical symptoms, and like not being able to concentrate, those are some things that that can often overlap with. Depression. So Megan, can you kind of talk us through, like burnout versus depression? Like you said,

some of them are very similar. And I think that’s why it gets a little bit confusing, because some people are like, well, I’m just depressed, which is not better than burnout. that neither one is better than the other,

right? or need to like pinpoint and deal with,

right. So there are some very specific characteristics of burnout versus depression. So for burnout, the problems are generally work related. But in depression, the negative thoughts and feelings aren’t only about work, but in all areas of your life. So your friendships, your family life, your home life, it can be all encompassing. I mean, it could also just be part of, you know, certain parts of your life. It doesn’t have to be own compensate. Depression is a very complicated beast. But since burnout is typically associated with work, that’s kind of the main delineation between the two. So, for burnout, generally, what’s recommended is to make adjustments in your workplace, a lot of the times, that means actually getting a new job. I know that when I, I used to work at a place where I in the mornings, I would wake up and I would feel sick. And that was kind of was like, Oh, I need to go find a new job. Now. This is not ideal, right. But also, a lot of times, it’s kind of just a simply, you know, talking to your manager, load, lightening your task load, things like that. But with depression, a lot of the times you need professional help, like therapy or medication. Depression also has certain symptoms that burnout doesn’t usually have, including low self esteem, feelings of hopelessness, and suicidal thoughts.

Yeah, there’s so there’s definitely, again, like they’re both really important to tackle, and to treat and to figure out, and they could definitely go hand in hand like you could be depressed and be experiencing burnout at work.


So they’re not mutually exclusive. But I did think it was important that we kind of talked about the differences between the two, because I do think that they can be confusing if especially if you are experiencing some of both, or you have experienced both in the past, like, just kind of figuring out like, is this something is what I’m experiencing right now something that can be alleviated by adjusting my work, or and something in my work life? Or is this something where I need to seek out therapy or, you know, talk to my doctor about getting on some medication or whatever that might be? So there’s definitely, Megan, I know that you and I have both experienced burnout before. So what are some things that that you have noticed when you are feeling burnt out?

And like I said that I had that one job where I would literally feel sick. And I wouldn’t want to go to work. And actually, it was quite interesting because I know other people that I worked with that that job who would tell me they’re like, I got to work this morning and I sat in my car and cried for a while before I can Amen. And I was like, that’s not healthy. Cool, great. Um, but a lot of the times, it comes down to just like your attitude about the work itself, especially if it’s a job that I normally would enjoy. But the tasks just start getting like so annoying to me.


Where I could be anything like literally anything, but it will definitely be a case where it’s like, oh, this is something that I used to enjoy. I used to, like all the facets of this job, and now, everything is dumb, and I hate it.


Yeah, I got what about you? I think, for me, like, that ties in. Like, I am not a procrastinator, I never have been my mother, like, hammered into me from a very young age, like not to procrastinate. And so I can start to tell that burnout is like coming on when I start to procrastinate. Like, if I just am putting off all the things, that’s very unlike me, and it’s because, because I I thrive on, like getting things done and getting that cross off my list and like being on top of it, and not falling behind on things. And so if I start to procrastinate on things just have like, chronically, then that’s sort of a cue for me that something’s not quite right. It can be something I love. And I’m still like, Listen, I don’t want to.

I have

literally always been a procrastinator forever. But one of the other things I used to remember is actually, a lot of the times I can tell when I’m burnt out if I start getting takeout more often, oh, if I stop cooking as much, then I’m like, oh, because I usually love cooking. Granted, I don’t love this sort of love cooking every single day, because it’s a lot, but so I guess that would be a one kind of burnout for Mike because my job is related to cooking now. But yeah, I guess I feel like that falls in the same thing where it’s like something that you used to enjoy. And now it just feels like, oh, the worst chore ever in the entire world. Yeah, I do it. Uh,

I definitely felt that I had that with my blog several years ago, where I was because I, I’ve always worked a full time job. And I would, you know, be working 40 plus hours a week during the week, and then I would come home. And on the weekends, I would spend like the whole weekend cooking and photographing and stuff. And I just reached this point where I was like, I never want to look at this fucking blog again. Like, I don’t want to think about photographing anything ever again. And I had I remember at the time, like I had a couple of contracts that I had to finish out with a couple of brands. And I was like, I’m going to finish all these contracts. And then I’m going to, I’m going to step away because we were getting ready to move into our house anyway. And I was like, this is just a good time to like, take a break. And I guess it’s been quite the break. Several years later, I still have not picked it up just like on a regular schedule.


I also like I have come to a place where I don’t think I will probably ever blog in the same way that I used to. Just because for me like what I like the the job that I have working in influencer marketing and working on sponsored content on like the brand, sort of decide that it makes me not want to do that kind of work on my own blog, because then it’s just like the same work over and over and over again. So for me, I had to really like take that step back and pivot to a place where now when I blog, it’s because I really want to do it. And like that’s not a luxury that everybody has, but it’s definitely it was sort of getting back to a place of blogging for a hobby, which is how my blog started. As opposed to like blogging because we had to and I think that’s like you and I we do this podcast regularly, but it’s it’s still a hobby. For us, and I think that that’s like, really, I don’t know, I think that that’s really important. Because in keeping it a hobby, it gives us the flexibility to just like, if we need to take a week off, we can take a week off, or, you know, if we need to pivot and just like, bitch about COVID we can do that. And I don’t know, I don’t know if you feel the same way. But I don’t know. I think that, that having a hobby like this, particularly when we have both had hobbies that turned into jobs. Having a hobby that like stays a hobby is kind of important.

I think it is for sure. Especially in this era, where like, everything turns into a side hustle,

like, yeah, every

thing Mm hmm. To the point where my kid, my teenager who does not do this anymore, but a few years ago, he was all like, I’m gonna get a YouTube channel, and I’m gonna make tons of money being on YouTube.

And you were like, No, you’re not.

What are you gonna be on YouTube? About? It’s like, I don’t know, but I’m gonna be YouTube famous make lots of money. It’s like, Uh, huh.


Anything that’s,

that’s just a weird thing to ingrain into children. First of all, like, I’m gonna make billions of dollars on YouTube, or any anything for children like, No, it’s just weird that we have all of a sudden decided that we can’t just do things for fun anymore. And I think that has really contributed a lot to the factors of burnout. Like, if you’re not giving yourself the space, to decompress, doing your fun hobby, then of course, you are going to be constantly thinking about whatever it is that’s coming next.

Yeah. And I think like,

even if you’re really, really good at your hobby, that doesn’t mean that you have to monetize it, it doesn’t mean like, if you’re a crafter, and you’re just really, really, really good at your craft, that doesn’t mean that you have to sell it, it doesn’t mean that you have to create an Etsy shop. Like even if people say to you like oh my gosh, you’re so good at this, you should open an Etsy shop, you don’t have to do that. Like, right, if you want to just keep it as your hobby and your fun thing that you do and like you give away the pieces that you create, or whatever it is. That’s okay. Like, and I think like that ability to kind of distinguish some of that and say no to some of those things. Like if you just really want to keep it fun, I think that that does. Like you said, it keeps you from experiencing as bad of burnout at work, because you can come home and in the evenings or on the weekends or whatever. Do your fun thing, just because you like

so let’s chat about some of the other ways we can manage burnout aside from not taking on new side hustle.

Yeah, so, um, one of the things is learning to say no. But like, if you’re recovering from burnout, or you’re experiencing burnout, like it’s really okay to say no to new commitments or new responsibilities, like, and it’s actually probably pretty necessary and that’s not just that can be anything it could be like if someone asks you to like meet up for lunch. And you’re like the idea of that is just too overwhelming for you. It’s okay to say no to that. It doesn’t hurt if you know someone asks you to take on a volunteer commitment like it’s okay to say no. Even like if you are trying to get yourself back to like a better a better place.

One of the things that I think is good about this pandemic situation is that I think it is made it a little bit more normal for people to say no yeah. Yeah, I think so too. Because

you know, I even think of like, the before times, it was crazy to say no to like a social engagement. Like you just didn’t like your calendar would be like weekend after weekend of thing after thing after thing after thing and there were some sometimes be like, okay, When am I going to get a weekend where I’m not doing anything? I’m so looking forward to that weekend. And now like, maybe we can take some of the slower pace, like forward with us. Like, every weekend does not need to be jam packed with things.

I guess, tell my husband that please.

Remind him next time I’m over. Bob, not every weekend needs to be jam packed with things.

Here’s excuse to be like, well, I don’t get started anything until after like lunchtime, like,

okay, okay, well, maybe he should listen to this next thing, which is that you also need to delegate. So when you have the opportunity to pass responsibilities, or projects off on to someone else, you should really you should really think about doing that. And that I think, I think that that goes for your work life, which obviously is mostly what we’re talking about here. Because you’re experiencing, you know, burnout, due to your, your job and the workplace. But I also think that if you are someone, and you are in a partnership, I think that being able to communicate with your partner and express that like, Hey, I just really need some help with this chore or this task around the house or whatever thing it might be. If you’re not in a partnership, like is there a way that you can get a friend to come over and help you with something? Or do you need to hire someone to a cleaning service to come clean your house? Once a month? Or you know, there’s like, I think there’s a number of different ways you can kind of approach that, even if if you are single and living on your own. There’s lots of places in your life where you could potentially delegate some things. And not you don’t have to take it all on yourself.

Yeah, I think some people don’t do that, because they think it might be frivolous or something like that. And but if you’re reducing that mental load in any way that is good for you.

Absolutely. Absolutely. taking breaks is also really important. Just give yourself your mind your body a chance to relax between big tasks or big projects, because otherwise, you’re going to just go from Stress Ball State to Stress Ball State. So even if that is just Hey, I’m going to take 15 minutes and walk around the block. Like,

I think this is critically important right now, when everyone is working from home. Yeah, because I think our tendency, I think you You and I have worked from home for a really long time, but a lot of people used to work in an office. And when you are in an office, you naturally have times where you get up and you walk around and you you know might bump into a co worker and chat for five minutes. You don’t have that anymore. It’s just in front of the computer and you might you know, get up and get your water refill or go to the bathroom. But there’s no moment where you’re like really away from your work. Right. And so going for a walk or even just like, you know, if you have other people in the house, like making like a fake water cooler station, like something where you can just pause for a minute, even if, you know, if you live in a place where walking around the block is not feasible. Like just opening your door. Yeah. Or opening a window and kind of just sitting there and breathing in the air for a little while.

Right? If you haven’t

actually helps a lot. Oh, having a dog. Yeah, they will absolutely love going for a walk with you. Right or even or throwing a ball in the backyard. backyard. I

know your dog loves to just like, run like a crazy lady in the backyard. She would be in the backyard all day if we would love her wild. So you know, or if, if you have a cat, the cats probably hiding somewhere, go find the cat. Make the cat love you for a few minutes. You know, all those things, I think are good ways to just sort of take a minute. Make yourself eat some lunch away from your desk away. I’m really bad at that. You know this about me. I’m really bad at taking a lunch break. But sometimes I will even but even sometimes even If I’m eating lunch at my desk, sometimes I will just like pull up a YouTube video. And I will watch a YouTube video while I eat my lunch for 15 minutes. It’s something completely frivolous, absolutely not related to work at all. And like, that’s a nice little like, okay, little like mental breather. So yeah, cuz I’m, I, I, I will admit to you all, I eat lunch at my desk basically every day. Except for Fridays, when I’m on my own with the baby. And then I actually that like makes me take that break. free for all on that day, it makes me walk away from because she’s up. But yeah. And then the other thing,

I think this is really,

really, really big is leave work at work. We talked about this, we talked about this in our work life balance episode. But like when you are just constantly connected. It’s really hard not to answer texts, or check emails or take the calls. But you need to set those boundaries in your life. I, I tell a lot of people this, I have work email on my phone, but only basically for emergencies. And so I have it on like a third screen by itself. So it’s not sitting there staring at me, I can’t see it. So I’m not tempted to check it. When I’m not at my desk, I have an office. When I’m done for the day, I turn off my computer, I turn off the light, I’m like I leave my office. So even though it is in my house, that it is that’s my workspace, and like it’s my dedicated workspace. So I think finding those little ways, and depending on your job, depending on your boss, like, depending on your team structure, some of that may be a little bit more difficult. But I think the more that you can set those boundaries, the better off you’re going to be and the less likely you’re going to fall into that pattern of burnout.

Yeah, I do the same thing where I, at the end of the day, I turn off my computer and I turn the light off and I leave my office. Close the door. I have door on my office, I closed the door, I don’t go back in there. And I also don’t check email after five o’clock. Yeah, I

think that this is really hard if you’re self employed, right?

Yeah. Because you’re always like, I might get it like a lead on something. And then I was like, but then if you think about it, like, yes, you might get a new client. But also, do you want a client who was emailing you at 9pm and expecting a response at 9pm? No,

I do not.

I actually like I read something recently. It might maybe it was something that you linked me to, I don’t remember, but I read something recently, where they were talking about, like they actually they appreciate if they get it out of office response or an auto response to an email that basically just says like, I typically check my email twice a day. If it’s between, like, if you’re emailing me with something super urgent between those times, then here’s how you can find me. But otherwise, I will respond to your email either in the afternoon or in the morning or whatever, like, and I thought that was really interesting of just sort of going ahead and saying, Hey, I, I checked my email twice a day, or three times a day or once a day, or I don’t know, whatever, like setting that expectation that you’re probably not likely to get a response from me in five seconds, but I promise I will get to you.

The other thing is that if you are a person that feels like they have to answer that email, even if you see the email, because you happen to be on your computer or whatever, and you have to answer it. If you are using Gmail. There is this amazing add on called boomerang. Mm hmm. And you can schedule that email to not go out until tomorrow.

Mm hmm.

So you could write the email the night before and then it magically goes out in the morning like a sane person. email at 9am.

Right. Right. So yeah, I think there’s lots of different ways that you can set boundaries, whether you’re working for someone else or you’re working for yourself. That just makes it clear like this is this is what I I’m working, these are my hours. This is what you can expect from me like, because it makes you again, like, going back to what happens when you are burnout, your performance is reduced. So really, like a good employer, a good manager should not want you to be burnout, they should not be wanting to work you to the point of burnout, because they’re not going to get as much from you.

And I think actually, if you have these boundaries, I feel like that makes you a more reliable employee. Because having the boundary is shows that the times that you are available, you’re available. Oh, yeah, those are the times that you will be working for them, you’re not going to be distracted. Because you are also doing 12 on two things that because you’ve shown that you’ll answer emails at 10pm. When you should be doing other stuff like going to bed.

Right? Go? Go watch a stupid Netflix show. Like Don’t Don’t be checking your work email. So yeah, I I don’t know that there’s a magic solution or a magic wand two way for everyone to no longer feel their, you know, burnout from this last year of this this workload and the emotional load and all of the things that we’ve been feeling, but I think there, these are some tips that we can kind of use to try to keep things a little more under control.

One thing I think is interesting is that one of the tips is not simply to just take a vacation,

right? Because you can take a vacation, but then if if you do nothing besides take a vacation, then you when you come back, you’re just coming right back to the same problem.

Exactly. You’re just you’re just addressing I was gonna say the symptom, you’re not addressing the symptoms, you’re not addressing the symptoms, you’re just kind of trying to treat it with like a band aid.

Yeah. Yeah, it is. It’s a band aid solution. When you probably need stitches,

I don’t know I have

a really bad metaphor that’s

really bad that but if you get the idea, like if you have changed nothing else about your situation, then coming back from a week of vacation, you’re just coming right back into the exact same environment. And you may have felt refreshed after that week. But that first day back, you may be like crying in your car, because you have to go back in or you may find yourself crying on your bathroom floor at the end of that day, that first day back or whatever. And you’re right back to where you started. So vacations are great. You should take vacations. You should take time off. But they aren’t necessarily solutions to burnout. Right, though? Yep. all that to say.

What’s bringing us joy?


what’s bringing you joy this week?

What a weird segue.

I didn’t have anything better.

So, one of our mutual friends, internet friends. I guess she’s your real friend. She’s mostly my internet friends. Chloe, who we had on the show.


has started doing Tick Tock slash reels about her investing advice. Investing, investing, budgeting, all that fun stuff. And they are hilarious. She shared one today and I literally could not stop laughing because I really, really funny and relatable. And that is really every time a new one pops up. It really kind of makes my day. So props to her. They’re like go Chloe.

She’s very funny. Yeah, they’re like hilarious. She she’s dancing around. Like they’re very, very good. So

I think the one of the things that makes it good is that she is not afraid not to say that she like looks stupid, but she’s not afraid to look stupid. You know what I mean? Like she’s just having fun and dancing and doing her thing and I love it. Personally, I would never do that.

Sometimes she does ones that are like that, like duet things on tik tok or whatever. Yeah, and it takes me back because we used to be in choir together. We used to, like same voice teacher. She has a beautiful she’s one of the most beautiful alto singing voices. And so when she does I like that where she’s like seeing Machu Picchu like rewrite the words to be like about, like, finance or whatever. It’s hilarious. But then I’m also like, Oh my gosh, just takes me back to when we were required together. So, ah, together. So anyway, I love that.

What is bringing you joy?

The last two the last two days, I have had to do conduct some video interviews for work. And so in an effort to look like a human being I’ve put earring within the last two days.

Wow, I’ve kind of been enjoying it. I’m not gonna. I’m like, Oh my gosh, just

like takes me back to the before times.

I got a couple pairs of earrings for Christmas from my friend. And I have only been able to wear them like, maybe twice because I don’t go anywhere. And so I feel dumb just putting them on right to be in my house. Yes. But maybe I should.

Yeah, like,

I don’t know, maybe you should come up with an excuse to like, be on Instagram stories. Or or,

I don’t know.

I don’t know, like, come up with a reason to just put in your earrings and walk to the coffee shop when it gets warmer. Like, Hello, I’m hearing my earrings, please admire me.

I really do have to figure out the earring and masks situation because I kind of stopped wearing them because of the mask.

Yeah, I had. I had like today and it was a little weird. Yeah, I

have a lot of like bigger earrings. And I had I was trying to deal with it last year with like, the mask, and the earrings and head glasses at that time. And it was just like kind of a lot to try and figure out what to

do with that mess.

And then we get caught in my hair because my hair is very long.

So it’s too much happening. Yeah, like some of them, you could kind of like loop through the the elastic before you put little plastic over your ear. But like I was definitely I was wearing wearing bigger hoops today, and had run the dogs to get their nails trimmed. And like I definitely just sort of like threw it on and just they didn’t put them through. And so it was a little weird. But I was also like, whatever.

But then if you do put them through, then you’re like trapped.

Right? Like you got to decide, like, how long is this mask gonna be on? Yeah, I will admit that that’s a little bit tricky. But it was worth it the last couple of days to just feel a little bit like, Oh, okay.

I did put mascara on a couple of days ago for the first time. First time after getting my eye surgery. But also first time in like, I don’t know, many months,

many moons.

But also now I have to figure out like, I guess we need to talk to a makeup expert at some point because like, should we? Do we throw away our makeup now? Do we need to buy new makeup? I think what is the protocol here? I don’t? I don’t know.

I think that the answer is that we do but

but I’ve heard that you don’t we’ll know what it is.

Well added to the list of a very specific, please email us, please send

us an Instagram dm. I need to know what to do with all of this makeup I’m not wearing

I have a feeling I will be texting us after she hears this and be like,


because it’s confusing because if some people are like you do need to throw it away. And then other people are like, well, as long as you wash your brushes. It will last forever.

Yeah, I think it depends on what it is. I don’t know. All of my stuff is like so old and crusty though that or, or. or I was like it was like running out before everything happened. And then I’ve used it so infrequently that I’m just like, I need to make an altar trip is really. Yeah, I need to make a trip to Ulta and restock up on some things.

That’s just what they want you to think so you can spend more money,


The worst of you’re wrong about it was capitalism

Next week’s episode

all along the patriarchy. Ah, all right. Well, next week we are going to be super nerding out and we’re going to talk about typography.

We are going to have our friend Susannah back and I have a feeling that there may be some rants about Comic Sans happening in this episode, so stay tuned for that. In the meantime, leave us a review on Apple podcasts and listen to us on your favorite platform. You can also follow us on social media at irsipodcast or send us an email at we’d love to hear from you


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