Hello! Welcome to episode 104 of I’d Rather Stay In. This week, we are diving into the topic of grief.
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Episode transcript
Megan
Welcome to I’d rather stay in with your host Megan Myers and Stephie Predmore. This week, we’re diving into grief. Stay tuned.
Stephie
Do you love listening to I’d rather stay in and want to support the podcast? Well, now you can visit our website or the link in our Instagram profile and click Buy me a coffee or visit buymeacoffee.com/irsipodcast. For the price of a cup of coffee, you can help us cover the costs of creating this podcast. There are no monthly memberships, and you could support us at whatever level you like, whenever you like, whether you buy us one coffee, many coffees or simply continue listening as always, we’re so grateful for your support Hello,
Megan
Hello. How’s it going? Good. Good. We just ate some donuts. So yeah, we’ve got a bad start to the day. We just
Stephie
had some packzis because it’s a Fat Tuesday. And I when I worked in Chicago, I had a Polish coworker and she would bring them in every Fat Tuesday and it was delightful. But since living down here, I haven’t had one because there’s not like a big Polish community. So finding them is a lot harder. Well, now we know where to go. Now we know where to go. It was delicious, most sugared up, ready to go. Also, I have a new podcast I discovered this week called shrink chicks. And it’s two therapists. They are Marriage and Family Therapists. But they have a podcast. And sometimes they have on different types of therapists. And they talk about different things. And I think they have like other types of therapists in their practice as well, because they had somebody, there was an episode I listened to about diet culture that had someone else from their practice. And that’s like something that she like body image and stuff is something that she specializes in, because that’s something that she has struggled with, like eating disorders and things. So it was a super interesting podcast. So that is a podcast I discovered this week that you might enjoy.
Megan
That sounds awesome. Actually, I need some new podcasts because I’ve caught up mostly with ones that I want to listen to and then like, like, okay, okay, one comes out today, so but I’m waiting because we’re gonna be on train tomorrow. So I’m trying to wait until we’re on the train and can listen to it on the train. But then I’m like the what do I listen to now? But I need something right now. I need something in between when all these episodes come out, because they all come out like on Tuesday.
Stephie
I know. I know that I like binge. And then by the time you get to like Friday, you’ve listened to them all like, well, crap.
Megan
I have the whole weekend of not let’s have a podcast.
Stephie
I know. Right? Yeah. No, this one was really good. I actually, it’s funny, I discovered it because of a bachelor podcast that I sometimes listen to. And I really haven’t been listening to, or really haven’t been watching this season of The Bachelor. But they had this episode with them because they did like a therapy date therapy and quotes date on this most recent episode. And they interviewed these ladies. And I was like, Oh, this was a really like, interesting episode. And they were really smart. So I’m gonna go listen to their podcast. So anyway, just thought I would share that little they actually did a whole episode on Encanto. And, like dysfunctional families and the different types of people that like tend to exist within dysfunctional families. So there you guys go, if you want to new podcast, check out shrink chicks.
Megan
Awesome. I bet that they would have a lot to say about grief.
Stephie
I bet that they would. Yeah. So I’ve been wanting to do an episode about grief for a while. And it’s been particularly on my mind for a couple of reasons. I recently had a very, very dear friend of mine go through something super tragic. And so I’ve been talking to her a lot about grief, but also just the general state of the world right now. We are all experiencing a collective grief. And so I thought now might be a good time to just talk about that.
Megan
Yeah, I think especially because even though we were experiencing this grief, we haven’t been able to process it. Because one, it’s just still going on. And it’s hard to process things that are like literally happening to you, right as it’s happening. And then the other thing is that, you know, all the rest of our lives are still going on, right? So we can’t, like just pause right and process what’s happening to us.
Stephie
Right? Well and it’s like it almost feels slightly more abstract then like a personal loss or a personal Tragedy like that has happened. And then like you said, like, Okay, so the pandemic happens, that’s ongoing. We’re all experiencing this, like, collective trauma, collective grief, that is having its own thing, then, you know, there’s a war happening. And now that’s a whole new added thing. So we just keep getting hit by different types of grief. You know, the war in Ukraine is not happening, like directly to us. And so if you don’t necessarily have family in Ukraine or family that’s directly affected, that you might feel like, isn’t even my place to be grieving this, but you are. And there’s, it’s just so fucked up. So that we talk about some of the fucked up Ness. But actually wanted so I actually wanted to start this topic by asking you a question again. And that is, and so let’s say that your only context for grief, and the grieving process was things that you had seen in movies, TV shows, read and books, just like popular media, what would you think about, like, the grieving process and the cycle of grief?
Megan
So this is actually really a question. Because the Sex and the City reboot just ended recently. And I mean, I’m sure everyone knows big dies. And so carry is basically dealing with that grief for like, the whole rest of the season. Right. And it’s like a span of, it’s kind of weird, because normally, if you watched six in city before, it was like, short time periods, but the reboot takes place over almost an entire year. Okay. So it kind of go, which is makes sense in terms of her grief process, but it’s also kind of jarring. Jump from episode to episode, there’s not that many episodes, and you’re like, a whole year is okay. Like, okay. Um, so, that portrayal I felt was interesting, because I felt like they maybe did it a little bit differently than what I’m used to seeing. I think I’m used to seeing like, people being sad, but putting on a brave face, right? And then they’re kind of just okay with it. And there’s usually like a wrap up thing where they’re like, right, soldiering on and like, it’s fine. And in this case, like, She’s literally just like, sleeping all day. And then not sleeping at night, just like wandering around New York City at night, and then not eating and like, it really felt like so I have a friend whose husband left her, she went through his huge grieving process over the loss of her marriage. And it sounded exactly like how they portrayed it in the show like she Yeah, she didn’t eat, she didn’t want to do anything. She’s kind of like, withdrew from life except for like taking care of her kids. And I feel like maybe because you know, it’s 2022. And people are finally, actually like, openly talking about these things. That’s the difference now
Stephie
could be. Yeah, because I think that I think you’re right, like historically, in popular media, what we see is this, like, they go through the stages of grief, in order, denial, anger, I don’t even remember all them to be honest, completely. Honestly, there’s
Megan
acceptance. There’s like, anger, blame or guilt.
Stephie
I don’t know, denier, denial, anger, blame guilt, something. I don’t know, I would have to look it up anyway. But there’s five of them. And they always happen in a in order, like in shows and movies. They always happen in order over like a very specific time period. And then that’s it. Yeah. They reach acceptance. And they’ve accepted it. Yeah. And so I think that for a lot of people, and I know that this was true for me when I lost my mom. Like, I was like, oh, okay, grief is there’s a grieving process. And there’s an order to it. And then it’s done. So spoiler alert, that is not correct.
Megan
I’ll be fine forever. As long as I do all the things that are listed in the checkboxes,
Stephie
exactly. I mean, you know, I love a list, and I was like, where’s my list? Oh, it turns out there’s no list. I mean, there is a list. It’s just wrong. Yeah. Correct. The list is the list is absolutely not a list that you can actually follow. Uh, yeah. I and I spent a lot of time I’m unpacking that in therapy because I was like what is happening?
Megan
So something that I saw recently was making the rounds on social media. You know that I love Andrew Garfield. And his mom died a few years ago, I believe of cancer. And he was on Colbert actually talking about, he was supposed to be talking about his projects. But Steven asked him about like, his mom, and like, how that affected him and stuff. And he had this beautiful thing that he said about grief and how grief was ongoing. But it’s not sad, because it’s like, just you thinking about all the things that you miss about the person and like all the love that you’re missing out on, and paraphrasing it horribly, but it’s really beautiful, and you should look it up. Because it was just like, such a really lovely way to think of grief is not something sad. It’s like, you’re sad, like you are sad, but it’s because of how much you love that person
Stephie
that there’s this like gap of love, then where the love is now missing? Yeah, yeah, that absolutely makes sense. What one of the most impactful things that was said to me, right after I lost my mom was, it never gets better, it just gets different. And that has been so helpful in my my grieving process for a couple of reasons. Like, um, like, for one is a great descriptor. And it’s been super accurate for me of as I’ve experienced, you know, the grief of missing my mom, and all sorts of other grief like that is that’s like my primary that’s like my primary trauma. So that’s the one I talk about the most. But I also, you know, had to deal with the grief of infertility and just all of these other things. But in particular, like dealing with losing my mom over the last four and a half years, like it has, I still miss her and her not being there will never be okay. But at the same time, like the edges start to soften and you can there’s things that I can do or watch or listen to now that I couldn’t before. And they’ll bring because they now bring me back good memories instead of just like sending me into like a puddle of tears. So there’s just like lots of ways that the grief has changed over the last four and a half years that from what it was the very beginning and particularly in that first calendar year. And it also is that that concept of like it doesn’t, it never gets better. It just gets different. It also has given me permission to just like, continually grieve and to continually miss her and to not have an endpoint on it, because that’s not how it actually works.
Megan
Yeah, there’s no end point. And I think a lot of people aside from what we see on TV, I think other people in your life will just be like, well, you know, it happened so long ago. Right? Like, why? Why are you still sad about it? Right? You should get over it, right? Yes. What do you do when people say that to you?
Stephie
Um, to fuck off? Um, no, you know, like, it’s not. So often. I think when people say that, and most of the time they’re not, it’s not coming from like a place of malice. Like, they’re not saying it to be me, like they just genuinely don’t understand. And so often, I think it’s because they have not experienced not only that kind of loss, but they have not experienced that kind of love. Before, like, so for me, it was losing my mom. So maybe they did not have the kind of relationship with their mom where they would miss her for the rest of their however many years, so I was 28 I lost her. So you know, for the next let’s say 60 years, I will miss my mom. And if you didn’t have a great mom, they might be like, Dude, get what are you for, like, get over it. And like, you know, for your friend that was grieving the loss of her marriage, like someone who did not have has not been in that kind of relationship or has not had that happen. They might not understand that that is going to be an ongoing grieving process. Someone who has not lost a child might not understand that or you know, there’s lots of different things. So I have to remind myself Like they just might not have the emotional context to understand. And also like, they don’t need to understand my grief. It’s not really their business to and how I grieve, because everyone grieves differently. And grief is fucking weird. I was talking, I was talking about this with my friend. Because just the other day actually, she sent me a voice message. And she was like, how have you experienced this like when you lost your mom, but like her she and her husband the for their loss? They were I guess they were watching, like a lot of the Marvel movies and shows and stuff. And like, once the loss happened. She was like, I don’t want to watch like the Marvel stuff. Like it’s too much for her. And so they’ve been watching just like, super just kind of dumb fluffy, like reality shows this very low emotional impact stuff. Yeah. She was like, I don’t know, is that normal? Is that and I was like, if that’s what your emotions need. If that’s like what your grief is telling you the need that you need, then yeah, that’s normal. My, my, my like, favorite grief story is a couple months after my mom died, I woke up on a Sunday morning. And was like, I need to repaint my office today. Yeah, and my husband like he was at work all day, he came home from work. I had gone to Sherwin Williams, I had gotten all of the pay all this stuff. i By the time he got home, my office office was like halfway repainted. And he just like walked in. And he was like, Oh, guess we’re repainting your office. And I just looked at it. And I was like, This is what my grief needed today. could not explain it to you by.
Megan
And it makes sense to me though, because it’s like. However, you’re like processing, I think a lot of like, a gut reaction is like, well, maybe it will be better if I change something drastic. And so for you, like if I changed my office, like it’s not necessarily something huge, you’re right. But like just something, yes, to feel something different.
Stephie
And I can control that I could control what color my office was, I couldn’t control so many of the other things that were happening in that time in my life, or like, even necessarily control my emotions in a logical way. But I was like, I can control what color my wall is. And so that’s what that was. So I just like, there’s no, there’s no real logic, shit gets weird. And that’s totally okay. And it doesn’t, like, people don’t have to understand it. Yeah, it’s, it just is what it is. But it is it does sometimes feel very isolating. When, you know, the thing happens is tragic things happens, and everyone in your life rallies around you. And you know, they’re, they, you know, bring you meals and they sent you flowers, and they check in on you. And then a few weeks or a few months pass and they sort of forget. And they have forgotten and you have not forgotten and that like for me, it was somewhere between the six and nine month mark where I just felt so isolated, because it felt like everyone else had moved on and forgotten. And I was like, I’m never going to forget. And now I’m all alone with this because no one’s checking in on me anymore. And no one’s talking about it. And it’s like my mom never existed. And that was maybe some of the hardest times for me because I felt so alone in that like and I have a wonderful partner and a wonderful family and like I could I you know, I was able to call up my mom’s best friend and talk to her like, you know, talk to my best friends. But like there was just this like, deep feeling of isolation in my own grief during that period of time. In particular, that was so hard.
Megan
Yeah, it’s really interesting to me that that happens because it’s really parallel to the other like, major moment that happens in your life, which is when you bring a baby into your family. People are really there for you at the beginning and then like, you know, like three months later, like basically after the like maternity leave period, right? Everyone is just like gone. And just kind of assumes like, Well, you got it now like figured it out. You’re great at parenting. 15 years.
Stephie
As it turns out, these kids continually baffle you, especially when you’re brand new parents. They’re always doing new shit.
Megan
I think it’s very interesting because, yeah, it’s just like very, it’s the same sort of thing. It’s so isolating, and like people just kind of, like I know people have their, their own business to deal with and shit. But like, I think, as humans, maybe it’s just an American thing I don’t know, we just have, like you said, like, we have these steps that we have to get through, or in our lives in general, like, you go to school, you go to college, you get a job, you get married, you have two and a half babies, and you work until you get really old, and then you retire, then you play golf, play golf, and go on cruises, and then you die. Like it.
Stephie
There’s your map, guys, that’s just
Megan
supposed to be your map of life, like you’re supposed to work at the same place for 40 years, I think, obviously, is been changing. Thank God, we realize that not everybody wants to work in the same job for 40 years,
Stephie
or have two and a half kids or get married or those other things.
Megan
Yes, but like, because while we are evolving that, like we don’t, we don’t have any sort of roadmap for like how we are actually supposed to support people, right? Because we don’t know, we haven’t seen it modeled anywhere. And if you haven’t seen something modeled, you just don’t, don’t know what the fuck you’re doing. And especially because as humans, we care very deeply what other people think of us. We don’t want to like, I know, for me, especially like, I don’t, a lot of times I don’t say things because I don’t want to say the wrong thing. Yes. And that is very difficult hurdle to get over.
Stephie
Yes. Yeah. And I think yeah, we we, I talked a little bit about this in our toxic positivity episode, too. Like, you don’t wanna say the wrong thing, or you don’t want to, like make the person sad, or like, remind them of the thing.
Megan
And you might think that like, that would be making it worse, like, if I start talking about, like, something awesome that I remember your mom doing, or something like, is that just gonna make you sad?
Stephie
Right, exactly. And like, in the end, like, I know, I know what the answer is for me. And I know what the answer is for many, many other people that I have come across and talk to you about this. And this may not be the answer for everyone. So I don’t you know, I do not speak for everyone. But I know for me, like, I love when my friends will, like text me randomly and be like, I was just thinking about your mom. And this time that she did blah, blah, blah. And it meant so much to me, or I saw this thing today and it made me think of your mom. And you know, I just really miss her. She was so wonderful. Or you know, whatever it is, like, I love getting those messages, like even if they cause a slight like, just initial like heart pain of like, oh, man, I miss her so much, too. I was already missing her. It’s not like I was like, I forgot she was like,
Megan
oh, yeah, that lady Oh, haha.
Stephie
Like I already I already knew that I was missing her. And so even if there’s just like, initial, like heart pain, like, it makes me feel so nice to know that other people remember her and think about her, because I do every single day. Not a day goes by not an hour goes by where I don’t think about her and miss her. And so when other people you know, just send a message and say like, oh, we really miss her, or hey, remember that time like I love that stuff. I’ve talked to people who have lost babies. And like, a lot of times, either they’ve you know, miscarried, or they’ve had a stillbirth or something like that. And, you know, oftentimes, people don’t want to bring up that child, because they like, they just like don’t talk about that child. And like, I have talked to so many people who’ve gone through that and like they really like when people are have really appreciated when people in their lives. Like remember that child and remember what they’re, you know, if they had a name, remember their name, and, you know, like, honor them as a part of the family. Instead of just like, oh, they never existed because they never, you know, took a breath, or you know, any of those things like there’s this. They, the people that I’ve talked to have said like that really just helps them feel like their child existed beyond just like, in their belly or in their arms. For like, such a short period of time, so like, again, I can’t speak for everyone, but I’ve talked to a lot of people that feel the same way about this, that I do that there’s this, like, it’s nice to know the other people remember and think about it and want to honor the people that you’ve lost or honor, you know, whatever it is that you are experiencing. So I think that I totally understand, because I’ve been there of like, I don’t want to bring it up, I don’t want to make any, I don’t want to make a remember it. But like, as time goes on, like, if you bring it up, like, chances are good that it’s not going to make them as sad as it did before, and that you’re maybe going to bring up, you know, happy memories or, you know, whatever. So it’s just something to think about if there’s someone in your life that’s experienced a loss, or is going through something actively. That there’s, you know, having, taking a minute to say like, Hey, I was just thinking about you, even when it’s weeks or months later. Checking in is always recommended. Yeah. And I think
Megan
it’s important to know, too, that you can acknowledge the grief, it is totally fine. Like, I think that is one good step in general in terms of like, not, I don’t wanna say moving past it, but like, right, being able to, like exist with it. Right. Can currently
Stephie
that’s like, coexist. Yeah, yeah. coexist. Yeah,
Megan
that’s the right word.
Stephie
We’re good. We’re all Yeah, we’re doing so.
Megan
So what do you think are some good ways that people can learn how to process the grief and or coexist with it? Yeah, you know, aside from therapy.
Stephie
I mean, that is really important. And I do advocate for, you know, seeing a therapist. But, you know, and, and a lot of the stuff that I Well, it’s interesting, because, like, I’ve experienced that, like, very concrete grief of losing my mom, right, like watching her, be diagnosed with cancer, and get sicker and sicker, you know, pass away. And I’ve also experienced this much more sort of nebulous grief of infertility where I was grieving the loss of something that I technically never had, but wanted to have, but didn’t have you couldn’t achieve. Like, there’s just it that is, I think, sometimes when there’s, it feels a little bit more nebulous, and it’s not this, like, here’s this concrete thing that happened, I think that sometimes can feel harder to like, navigate and work through and process. And I think that that’s sort of where we, as a society are at right now. Or we’re experiencing these, like, sort of nebulous things. Yeah, we can’t really put into words, that we’re that we’re all collectively grieving. But I think there’s like, the most important thing for me has been giving myself permission to feel what I’m feeling. And to recognize that whatever I’m feeling in that moment is valid. And it’s there’s not like a grief Olympics.
Megan
They’re just not Yeah, like, you’re not gonna get a gold medal for how you deal with your,
Stephie
you’re not gonna get a gold medal for how you deal with your grief. There’s no, like, there’s no trauma Olympics. It’s like, if you are experiencing something that’s causing you to grieve, that is valid. And it’s like you because I think so often. I know. And I know that, like I have had those thoughts, like in this past week since hasn’t been a week. Since you know, all of the stuff started with Ukraine. Like, I’m actually, I’m actually sitting here think, has it been a week, I literally can’t remember because it feels like it’s been forever, but I don’t even think it’s dragonfly.
Megan
It has not, I mean, it will be by the time we obviously this drops, but as of recording the recording, it’s only been like five days, so
Stephie
it feels like forever, right? Anyway. Um, and like, I know, like, I have had these thoughts too of like, okay, well, I live in the United States, I am safe. My town is not being bombed, my family is safe. Like, I’m not having to separate from my husband at the border while he stays behind. Like there’s all of these things that we see, right? It’s been really bizarre watching this war unfold on social media and real time. We’re just bombarded every time you open an app. You’re just bombarded with these heartbreaking images and interviews and all of these things. And so it’s easy Easy to get into a headspace of well, why am I sad? These things aren’t directly happening to me. But that doesn’t mean that there’s not still some sort of trauma happening, just collectively that you are a part of, and that is impacting you and so like, and that, you know, that’s true for what’s happening societally is, it’s true. If you, you know, let’s say, you experience a miscarriage at six weeks, and you know, somebody who experienced a miscarriage at 20 weeks, like it would be really easy to say, well, it’s not as bad as if I had miscarried later. Or, you know, you know, I wasn’t a stillbirth, or, you know, there’s lots of, there’s lots of ways that our minds trick us into thinking that what we have experienced isn’t as bad.
Megan
Like, we don’t have enough, we can’t, I can’t feel bad because it wasn’t as it were,
Stephie
exactly. It wasn’t a bad enough trauma for me to feel this way. Like you, you have to just give yourself the grace to let that go. And say, I am feeling this way. And my that means my feelings are valid. And let yourself have the space to feel your feelings. And I think that for me, and again, like ride that grief wave, what is your grief tell you the need to do? Do you need to repaint your office? Do you need to just watch just like Alaskan survivalist shows for the next month and a half? Do you need to go back and like you know, binge read your favorite book series? Do you need to listen to the exact same? You know, do you need to listen to the exact same Prince album on repeat, like whatever it is, like, that’s okay. Go with it. If it’s particularly if it’s not, like, destructive or self destructive, or any of those things. But you know, like, give yourself that grace, listen to what your body and mind need. And sort of like, let that right wave take you where it’s gonna take you without judgment.
Megan
I think that is one of the reasons why so many people got really into houseplants over COVID is because we had this like, grief energy that we couldn’t like really do anything with because like our bodies, or our bodies are wired for like the fight or flight response. Yeah. But because most people didn’t like, get something that would actually trigger it. It was just we’re all stuck in that weird we can either fight notionally, right? We’re just stuck in the anti anticipation part where like, if you got COVID Like you could do something about it. But if you didn’t, you were just kind of, like you said, nebulous. And so a lot of people got really in houseplants because they’re, they’re like, I need to channel this energy into something when caring for like, a thing, right, like, plants, especially sourdough starter, sourdough starter, a lot of people got dogs and cats and stuff. Yes. Because they needed to, like, turn what they were feeling, which was not great, into something positive. And so they’re like, channeling that until, like a growth experience.
Stephie
Right? Right. And they were feeling very isolated. And you know, they needed a companion of some sort. So you know, that’s good. Got a lot of those COVID dogs COVID Cats, bunnies, birds? I don’t know. Um,
Megan
I do think plants actually, as I think if you guys have been longtime listeners, we had a her friend brandy on to talk about plants. And she mentioned that plants really helped her with her mental health. Because when you like, have plants to take care of and you actually take care of that. That’s like a good sign. It’s a good indicator of like, where your mental health is. Yeah, as if you’re paying attention to all the little plants and like keeping them healthy and happy like granted sometimes. Who knows what’s going on with those plants?
Stephie
By again, no judgment. This is a we you have to leave space for not judging yourself in this.
Megan
We have both killed many plants so many. But like, knowing that like you need to take care of that meaning and like transferring that like, Oh, well. I need to also take care of myself and watering
Stephie
my plants need myself. Yeah, absolutely. I think yeah, I think that that that’s, that’s a that’s a really good point. There.
Megan
Did you, I know, obviously, you’ve been going to therapy for a long time, but have you either done or considered like, support groups?
Stephie
You know, so I thought about that. And the reason that I decided to do individual therapy was because I was concurrently experiencing the loss of my mom, the very first day I went to therapy was actually the morning of the day that she died. So like, that was all just quite a dramatic anyway. Um, but, so I was experiencing that, but then I was also experiencing all of the infertility stuff at the exact same time. So I was processing all of that together. And so all of the like support groups, stuff that I could find either in person or online, where it was, you know, grief support group, or infertility support group, and there wasn’t really anything that had that intersectional need that I had. But I do know, people that have done support groups for either infertility or grief and have found them very useful. I know that there are a lot of people that, you know, attend support groups for a lot of different things. And find them find having that community to be really helpful. For me, I have found a lot of my community on social media. So you know, as much as it can be a minefield, it can also be a really great place to find community of and, you know, connect with people that are going through, you know, similar life experiences is you. So that’s where I have found a lot of by like, support. You know, I discovered a number of, you know, I know, a number of people that are in like, the dead parent club suite, often will call ourselves sort of a widely used term. And, you know, you kind of collect people along your, your life path, or you’re like, Oh, hey, you’re also in the dead parent club. And like, you get things that other people don’t. And so, you know, you will often, you know, messaged each other or something, if we know an anniversary is coming up, or just had this really hard thing. And I know, no one else will get this. So yeah, that’s sort of where I have found the support groups. But I do know a lot of people have gone to in person support groups and really enjoyed them and found them to be very, very helpful. And depending on where you live, sometimes those are a little bit more hit or miss. Just, you know, if you live in a smaller town, you might have to look for something virtual.
Megan
Yeah. Especially if you’re a lot of them. They’re like, religious based.
Stephie
So Right, exactly, exactly. So yeah, that that too. Like, you have to kind of navigate like, okay, am I willing to take like, if it’s, you know, run by a church, you know, is there enough? Like, if I’m not religious, is there enough of it that I can still apply? Or, you know, you kind of have to your mileage may vary sort of situation there.
Megan
Yeah. So as we navigate our way out, fingers crossed through
Stephie
slash our well,
Megan
COVID Yes, especially. What do you your personal recommendations, I guess I would say, Yeah, we’re, you know, how people should continue on, and like, be able to address something like this nebulous and weird.
Stephie
Yeah, you know, and again, like, I’m not a therapist, this is all just sort of based on my own experiences, and, you know, whatnot. But I think it, I think it’s gonna be important for us to remember, and I’ve seen some, some talk about this, on social media, of like, this is gonna have changed our generation. For the rest of our lives. I keep thinking about I keep thinking about the folks who survived the Great Depression. And, you know, I don’t know if anyone had, you know, grandparents that survived the Great Depression, and they like, would not put their money in banks, and they would just keep their money under their mattress, you know, little like tins of cash around the house or just like, always had to have like extra food in the house or like these things that, you know, they experienced during the Great Depression. The were they were still doing in the like 80s 90s, early aughts. Like and I’m like, oh, that’s going to be on Like, there’s some way that that’s going to manifest for our generation and our grandkids are going to be like, God, why does grandma do all of this weird shit? Like, well, let me tell you about 2020
Megan
Grandma’s still carry on hand sanitizer,
Stephie
exactly like this makes no sense. Like, oh, let me tell you about 2020 2021 and 2022. And so there’s gonna be some weird way that our grandkids are going to be like, I don’t understand. And, like, it’s not gonna be like, we’re gonna wake up, and Cove it’s gonna be over, and we’re all gonna be okay. Like it there is just going to be this continual navigating of what life is going to look like moving forward. I think that and I, I don’t know that it’s gonna look the way that it did. 2019. And before, like, in the before times,
Megan
I mean, I hope it doesn’t, to be honest,
Stephie
there’s a lot of things that I hoped. But, you know, I think that there will be a long time of us grieving the loss of what was grieving. For some of us, it’ll be grieving the loss of what could have been, you know, if you became a parent, like myself, during the pandemic, your early parenting experiences have looked so much different than those of your friends with older kids. So there is a grieving a loss of what like could have been, or should have been on top of, like, if you actually lost someone, you know, to COVID, or like any of these other things. So I think that there’s just, like, we’re gonna have to keep reminding each other that this was, this has been an ongoing trauma, and that we’re gonna be experiencing the aftershocks of grief for a really long time. And that that’s okay. Like, it’s okay. This is not this is none of this has been like a normal thing to go through or experience. And so, you know, I keep I keep saying, I sound like a broken record, I keep saying, like, we have to give ourselves grace. And like, come for come experience these thoughts with like, no judgment to ourselves. But that’s the thing. Like, maybe I’ve been doing too much yoga lately. But like, I mean, if you do if you do yoga, or if you meditate, or if you do any sort of mindfulness practices, there’s a lot of talk of like, you know, as you’re, as you’re sitting and you’re breathing, and you’re sort of with your thoughts, it’s like, thoughts are gonna come through your head, and you’re supposed to just sort of like, greet them, and then let them go without any judgment. They’re neither good nor bad. They just exist. And then you sort of like, let them go. And the, the ways that grief manifests is a lot of times sort of similar. It’s like, okay, I see this thing, and then I’m not going to judge it. I’m not going to judge that this is good or bad, because there’s so many things, that boy, this is a whole nother tangent. I’m gonna, I’m gonna try to not go down too much of a tangent on it. But like, there’s so many things in our lives that we apply moral judgments to that are not moral for sure. Like, how to use your house. It’s like, oh, they have a perfectly immaculate house, they must be a morally great person. Like, that’s like there’s no moral judgment to like, grief. So don’t apply moral judgment on yourself because of it. Yeah. You just have to like, it’s okay to not be okay. Yeah, it’s okay to not be okay. Greet it where it is. And do what you need to do. But
Megan
when I was doing my meditation the other day, I was picturing this thing where like, when she says, like, bringing these thoughts into you, or let them come to you or whatever, and let go, I was picturing like, I don’t know if this is from a movie or this is just my brain but like, you touch it with like one finger. And it like dissolves into butterflies and flies away. Oh, very.
Stephie
I love that. I often think it was like, either like a balloon or like a cloud that comes through and you just sort of like boop, and it just like yeah, just floats away or like Eden’s very into bubbles right now, as toddlers are. So you know, I think of like, Honey, she’s got the bubbles and you know, he kind of the bubble away and it just floats off and it pops in there it goes like yeah, there’s lots of different I think there’s lots of different mental imagery for it. But yeah, I love the butterfly one. That’s good.
What’s bringing us joy
Megan
Thank you. So one thing that I feel like really helps me with grief is thinking about things that make me happy. Yeah. So what’s making you happy this week, Stephie, what’s bringing you joy.
Stephie
We are going to Are you going to a conference? For the first time in a bajillion years? Yeah. This week, and we’re going to see our friends and who live in North Carolina, we’re going to get to see them. And it’s really good food in Chicago, and I’m really excited about it.
Megan
Yeah, me too. I’m super excited. I’m nervous about like, the whole. The politics, you can’t see me. I’m like, waving my hands around.
Stephie
She’s gesturing vaguely at everything,
Megan
this whole thing. Um, but I am excited to like, I don’t I don’t like saying like, back to normal kind of situation. But like, you and I used to travel all the time, all the time for conferences. And so it’s been, I think I went to a conference in March 2020, right before everything closed down. And it was, it was weird, because it was like that in between were like, we still kind of thought it was gonna be like, do we panic, do we not do panics, we worry about it, it’s only gonna be like, a month, and everything will be fine. Um, and so that was a weird experience. Anyway, so now like, we’ll actually see people in person. And like, do the whole networking thing and like, the actual learning and I don’t know, it’s just been after everything’s been virtual for so long. It’s gonna be, it’ll be interesting.
Stephie
It’ll be very interesting. I’ve forgotten how to dress myself. Oh, my God, like, do my makeup. I’m very confused about like, how to pack for this. But all that aside, I’m excited that you know, our friend is flying in this afternoon. And we’re going to get to hang out here in town for a day before we go to Chicago. And that’s going to be so much fun. So trying to focus on like, the like, oh, the good part, the good part, focusing on like the good parts, and the fun things and like the dinners that we have planned to get me through the like, slight anxiety of just peopling for a few days.
Megan
Yeah, I was packing and I like put some outfits together. And I’m like, I don’t really know how I feel about these. But also, I don’t really think I have anything better. So I guess that’s what I mean, where am I going to go shopping here? There is no word.
Stephie
There’s nowhere to go shopping. So. Yeah, so I don’t know if I just stole your joy if you were gonna say the same thing, but Megan was bringing you joy.
Megan
I mean, I wasn’t gonna say that, but it is also bringing me joy. Um, is it weird to say just that, like, I’ve been a really good mood lately? No, that’s a great thing. Um, so my joy is just like, being able to bump along this week, our joy
Stephie
is that she’s not depressed.
Megan
To be joyous about, I don’t I’ve just been like, I feel like I’m like, last week when we did our recording. I’m like, we’re in the flow. And like, I feel like I really am in the flow right now. Yeah. Um, and I finished a book that I was reading, and I’ve been getting a bunch of like, shoots done for the website. And that feels really good. And I’m just like, feeling happy about it. Maybe it’s like the impending spring. We’ve been having good weather.
Stephie
We have been having some nice weather. I am definitely that is the I got a notification from the daycare app. And they were playing outside today on the middle of playground, like it’s finally warm enough for them to go outside again. And I know that Eden loves playing on the playground. But I was just like, just seeing the picture of her on the little playground. I was like, Oh, it is almost spring. It’s gonna be like warm enough to go outside again. And like, actually play.
Megan
Yeah, Max was really excited because he was like, it’s finally warm enough to take my jacket off on the playground. Like, you were like the fitness jacket.
Stephie
So barely counts as a jacket, sir. Really.
Megan
I mean, it was a hoodie. It was not a jacket today, but he insisted that he was going to be warm enough. He is very much acclimated. Here, he was like, This is great. It’s perfect. 25 degrees. I don’t need a jacket. Man. It’s 25 degrees. It’s so warm.
Stephie
In my my middle school that I went to, they actually had to make a rule that you couldn’t wear shorts after the you could well, you could only wear shorts for the first quarter and the last quarter of the year, because if they didn’t have that rule, there were all of these boys, middle school boys who just tried to wear shorts, like literally in the snow. That sounds right. And you’re like, why is happening? So they just instituted a rule that you couldn’t wear shorts outside of the first quarter and the last quarter, pretty much primarily for the boys. I think The girls had sent
Megan
right. I think the difference for a bit for between my kids is that obviously re spent many more years in Texas. Yes, he thinks it’s always cold here. Just like ready to go. Got my T shirt on.
Stephie
God bless him. I know. Gotta love it. Gotta love it.
Next week’s episode
Megan
Well, next week we are going to be talking about drinking culture.
Stephie
That’s right, we’ve got our friend Susannah coming back. We’re going to be talking to her all about that. So until then, leave us a review on Apple podcasts and listen to us on your favorite platform. You can also follow us on social media at IRSIpodcast or send us an email at idratherstayinpodcast@gmail.com We’d love to hear from our listeners
Megan
bye
Transcribed by https://otter.ai