Hello! Welcome to episode 121 of I’d Rather Stay In. This week’s guest is sharing her experience of parenting a trans teen in our society.

Quick links

• The ABCs of LGBT+ by Ash Hardell
• Gender Spectrum
• Mama Bears
• Meg Emiko Art on Instagram
• Jeffrey Marsh on Instagram
• Schuyler Bailar on Instagram
• Jazz Jennings on Facebook
• Gender Reveal podcast
• I am Speaking podcast (Look to season 2 for episodes on gender and sexuality)

Episode transcript

Megan
Welcome to I’d rather stay in with your hosts Megan Myers and Stephie Predmore. This week we’re chatting with our guest Crystal T about what it’s like to parents a gender diverse child. Stay tuned.

Stephie
Do you love listening to I’d rather stay in and want to support the podcast? Well now you can visit our website or the LinkedIn or Instagram profile and click Buy me a coffee or visit buy me a coffee.com/irssi podcast for the price of a cup of coffee, you can help us cover the costs of creating this podcast. There are no monthly memberships and you could support us at whatever level you like whenever you like. Whether you buy us one coffee, many coffees or simply continue listening as always, we’re so grateful for your support

Hello, Megan.

Megan
Hi Stephie How are you doing? I am good right before we hopped on to record my Yitty order arrived. And so I immediately had to put on the pants and they are really comfy.

Stephie
I so I did not order like any of the workout stuff. I got the like bralettes like the it’s like the shape where bralla and underwear or whatever. But then I also Loki made the mistake of trying them on yesterday when I was like the most bloated from a period that I’ve ever been in my entire life. So I was like well, this was maybe not the day to try these things on. So I will probably try them on like tomorrow because I’ve already like less bloated today because I have been talking to my gynecologist about doing like a tubal ligation and maybe a uterine ablation and some things to like, stop these stupid periods that are so awful for me and just all of the above. And it’s like my uterus heard me talk and shit and was like, hey, punish you. I am punishing you for talking about ending your period by giving you a really terrible one.

Megan
It’s not enough that I’m going to rip out your insides, climb the walls of your body.

Stephie
Exactly for you. I’m just gonna figure out all of the ways to make you miserable. So anyway, all that to say I am excited to try my back on when I’m like less bloated feeling.

Megan
Yeah, the pants I got. They’re not workout pants. They’re just like loungy pants.

Stephie
Oh, yes. So, because I was like, wow, like buttery soft, right?

Megan
Yes, they are. They’re very soft. Yeah. And they’re very stretchy and like, I’m excited to just keep wearing them. Or I might wear them to our parent meeting tonight. Who knows? I mean, I’m classy lady.

Stephie
Honestly, you should just let all these other soccer parents know what they’re getting into straight out the gate. That is probably true. Just no, no, we’re not even going to pretend at this point. We’re done

Megan
real low expectations. Okay, thanks.

Stephie
Also, I love how like lounging pants are always just like super stretchy as if you’re gonna be doing a lot of movement. Right? When really, you’re just gonna be like, spreadeagled. Like your bed watching Netflix like us, like all. So I always appreciate that about a lounge pant, where I’m like, I couldn’t do all of these movements. But instead, I’m just gonna get into really like funny positions while I watch TV. Right? That’s it I love I love this journey for us. I so I speak it of movement. I have not been moving my body as much as I should, because I like never do. And so I made myself a 30 day goal to move my body at least 15 minutes every day. And like, you know, we don’t fuck with that culture around here. So this is not about like losing weight or anything like that. This is just literally about I know that I feel better when I do intentionally move my body. But I’m also really bad at keeping up with goals like this. And I’m realizing that’s because I never set them up right. So this time I made it super, like a little loosey goosey, but also not loosey goosey. So like all I said was as to be 15 minutes of intentional movement. It doesn’t but I didn’t say what it has to be. So I’m not following a workout plan. It doesn’t it doesn’t have to be like a workout. It could be 15 minutes of stretching, it could be yoga, it could be going for a 15 minute walk around the block, whatever. And I built myself a chronic illness loophole that if I have a day where my body just does not want to cooperate and move because I know I’m going to have at least one day a month that I feel like that. Then on those days I will do at least 10 minutes of meditation instead of movement. And so, I mean, I’m only like a weekend to this, but I’ve kept it up so far. And I told a couple of our friends about this. And without me asking them to they both decided to make 30 Day goals for themselves not movement related but of things that they were wanting to do for their own like, emotional and physical well being. So all three of us have are working with the same 30 days, we each have our slightly different goals and we’re checking in with each other and encouraging each other and it’s just really nice.

Megan
That’s awesome. That feels like so centering and weirdly productive even though it’s not really meant to be like a productivity thing.

Stephie
Yeah, like one of us is like her goal is to like craft for at least 15 minutes a day. Another one was the end the other one wants to get more sleep and so she’s got hers says like getting enough sleep. And so she said like I want to get X number of hours of sleep at night. So like the all of our goals are really really different. But we each chose something that we felt was like a thing that we’ve been wanting to do for our own like physical emotional, mental well being. So yeah, it’s nice that I’ve got like my buddies doing this with me and we can encourage each other and like, check in and 30 days like I can do 30 days I think we’ll see.

Megan
Yeah. Yeah, and I think it’s it’s funny with the stretching too, like I think most people stretch somewhat but if you do like intentional stretching, it just feels like so different.

Stephie
It does. It really does well and like I found like a 15 Minute. Like what did she call it? Like a peace or calm or something? Like stretch on the peloton app. And it was like I did that before bed the other night and it it felt really nice. Like Alex walked into the bedroom. He’s like, I’m just like, on the floor and this like, weird, contorted position if he was like, he just looked at me and I was like, I’m stretching. Like, okay, just like walked out. Everyone’s stretching. So good. Yes, it’s

Megan
so good for your body. Yeah. So and helps you sleep. So

Stephie
it does. It really does help you sleep more and you can do it and you’re very comfy. loungy Beyonce brought it all together. Hey, look at me. So this week, we are returning to our series on parenting in America where we talk to parents whose families fall outside of the quote norm about their parent what their parenting experience is like in our society.

Megan
Today, we’re joined by Crystal T, a mom who’s here to share what it’s been like for her to raise a gender diverse child in our world. Welcome, Crystal.

Crystal
Thank you. Thank you both for having me.

Stephie
Thank you for being here today. Crystal, can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?

Crystal
Yeah, I am a mom of two and I am a self described in indoors girl. I love the great indoor type of people. Yes, um, you know, I love books and watching TV and doing art every once in a while with my iPad. I

Stephie
love that. And you are also kind of nerdy and I love that about you very, very much.

Crystal
I am very nerdy. I like various like niche things that I kinda like to dig deep every once in a while on a new topic and become a mini expert. And then I move on to something new.

Stephie
Do you Graham type?

Crystal
I think when I Well, I’ve done several Enneagram quizzes and it has been kind of an even split between one and six.

Stephie
Okay, yeah, that’s good. So I could see that. I could see that. Yeah, cuz Megan’s a five and she definitely could have like a little five Wingo in there. Fear six, get your little do your research deep dives. That makes that makes sense. So can you tell us a little bit about the early years of your parenting journey?

Crystal
Yeah,

Stephie
I

Crystal
they were hard. I think that’s probably for most people. But I didn’t have a lot of family support. When I had my child, my first child and we lived kind of in a remote area. So I took to blogging and started writing about my experiences just to get connections with other parents out there. And I think I was surprised i The intensity of the connection with your child and just how I think vulnerable parenthood makes us. And I think I went into parenthood thinking I knew what to do and how to do it. And I quickly discovered that I knew nothing. Or just much less than I did. And I didn’t expect my child to teach me so much. So it’s been an interesting, I think, you know, maybe this is where my Enneagram number comes into play that I thought it would be great at it, and that I would know what to do. And I don’t like not knowing what to do. And not being like, not understanding, you know, what path we should take in every instance, immediately. I want to be good at it immediately.

Stephie
What’s that meme that’s been going around? That’s like, I hate that in order to become good at something, I have to be bad at it first, or like you’re like, Ah, yep. Yes.

Crystal
So, you know, that was difficult. And my daughter, I divorced my daughter’s dad when she was about two. So that just, you know, it was a little chaotic, or in the early years, but we kind of found our stride and things did get easier. And then I started over again, when I had my second child and learn that everything you learn with one child doesn’t necessarily carry carry over to the next one.

Megan
So true.

Stephie
knows that well,

Crystal
yeah, it’s crazy. And like, they’re so different, they could not be more different. And just the thing, all the things I thought I had figured out, I had to relearn.

Megan
So your oldest child identifies as trans. How old? Was she, when she first expressed her gender diversity to you? And can you share how you digested that news? As a parent?

Crystal
Yeah, um, she was 12. And it was the best, you know, she delivered the news while we were driving in the car, which seems to be where things get confessed, or I learned things about my, my kids. And she just told me, Mom, I, you know, sometimes people call me she, and that’s okay. That’s okay with me. We don’t have to correct them. And she, you know, just kind of testing the waters. And I said, Okay, do you want me to call you she? Or would you like me to use some other pronoun, and she told me that she wanted to be called she, she didn’t have a lot of words for like, she didn’t tell me I’m transgender. I’m, you know, it wasn’t that way. It was just more subtle. And, and I asked some questions, I just tried to be curious and give her space to tell me. And she didn’t know I think a lot of the vocabulary. So I ended up buying a book called The ABCs of LGBT, and said, Hey, here’s this book, if you want to kind of look through it, so that you can describe your experience, you know, more specifically, this might be helpful. So it took her some time. And how I digested it. I mean, I was surprised and not surprised. I think from an early age, we thought, or I thought, you know, she’s probably not going to be straight. Just the way that she connected with kids. She just wasn’t a stereotypical boy at all. And she’s very sensitive. And so there were some aspects of her that I think are more stereotypical feminine traits. But I just wasn’t sure she she’s very unique person. So I kind of have found that she’ll always surprise me with something new. I was I was nervous, because, you know, I’m very aware of a lot of the anti trans and anti LGBTQ rhetoric out there and unsure because it was another kind of journey and and some I think we had to figure out together. And I felt like, I wasn’t necessarily prepared for that. But I don’t think there’s any, you know, necessarily any way to prepare for something that you haven’t experienced yet. So I tried, I just, I did try to keep my kind of anxiety about it to myself, because I didn’t want to add to any difficulties she was having. But it was, you know, not I wasn’t immediately great at being, you know, the parent of a transgender child, I had to do some research and reading and practicing to get things right.

Megan
How long ago was that, that she revealed this to you?

Crystal
Four years ago now.

Megan
Okay.

Crystal
So it’s been some time now. Yeah.

Stephie
I’m sitting here getting emotional. And I just, you know, said I was on my period, so everyone, for what it’s worth, but I’m sitting here getting emotional, thinking about how safe she has to feel with you to not only be able to come out to you, but to really just sort of like, not even fully know the answer herself. But, you know, I think that there’s, I’ve heard stories from a lot of my LGBTQ plus friends that like, they didn’t come out to their parents. And so they really, like knew themselves what they were feeling or knew, you know, exactly how they identified or whatever it was, so that they could say, like, Mom, Dad, I’m gay, I’m bi, I’m trans, whatever. And the fact that Jay felt so comfortable and safe to not even fully have the vocabulary and like, fully know, until, like, explore that with you. I think I mean, you know, I know that no parent is perfect. And we all have things to do to work on that you just said you had to do a lot of research, and you certainly weren’t the perfect parent of a trans child. But I think that is has to be a testament to you as a person. And you as a mom that she had that felt safety with you like, I’m really like, feels about it over here.

Crystal
Yeah, I hope so. I mean, it was interesting. And we do have that kind of relationship where I kind of hear things from her first, and then I have to communicate it to her other parents. And that was definitely the case here where she talked to me first. And I said, Well, do you want me to tell your other parents? Or do you want to tell them, and she wanted me to deliver the news so that people could start adjusting and using the right pronouns. But she was very clear in saying, I want them to know, but I don’t want to have a philosophical discussion about it. Which is hilarious. Or, you know, she’s was barely 12. And, and telling me this, and I said, Okay, that makes sense. And, and I think, you know, she is the type of kid that just really doesn’t say something, or tell me something until she’s absolutely sure of it. She wants to really think about things and make sure she gets it right before she reveals it to anybody else. So I think that makes it easier for me as a parent of just knowing like, she’s sure she knows, she’s been thinking about this for some time. And I had asked her at the time, you know, how long have you known this about yourself? And she said, since she was about six years old, and I, you know, that was kind of a sad moment for me of like, I thought I had been very inclusive and welcoming and trying to make, you know, everything safe for her so that she could be the person she was, but I kind of thought, Well, it seems like I neglected to kind of let her know, specifically that, that there are all types of people and that trans people exist because she just didn’t understand she just knew I’m not a boy. But I don’t know what I am. And then, you know, it took six years to find the words to kind of start to explore that more. And so it’s just interesting to me. You know, I in like looking back, I could have been A little bit more explicit and, and had books and you know, I got books later and I got books so that I could ensure that if I had a second child that that would happen with that, he would at least be able to tell me, but that that would be one thing that I can think

Stephie
like back home even. So that would have been, you know, if she started to feel that way at six years old, I would have been 10 years ago. And I think even just in the last five, probably years, I think there’s been so many more LGBTQ affirming, like children’s books and picture books coming out on the market and like being available. And so, I mean, you know, I think you don’t know what you don’t know. But and also I think, baby, like, you know, I

Crystal
have a two year old and so parents that have young kids like me, I think we’re we have more tools almost for some of this to just have these books in our libraries, our home libraries from the time our kids are tiny, because they exist, and they’re easy to find. Yeah, yeah, definitely. There’s been a huge flood of them. And I am just, I know more transgender people. Now I know trans adults, and people are more open about it online. So I follow various trans, like influencers. And it’s so helpful to have access to that information. Because I just didn’t really know anybody before. And so it wasn’t kind of on my radar to be thinking about, because I mean, I guess as parents, you can’t think about every single possibility. I mean, I want to, that’s my personality is figure out like, Okay, what could possibly happen? Create a plan for that. But that’s not what our therapists say. Absolutely, yes. That’s why we need therapy. All right.

Stephie
So I mean, we do as parents want to protect our kids and shield them in, in every way that we can, even though we know that’s not always possible. And you mentioned that how cruel our society can be to trans and gender diverse people in general, but especially kids. So what are some of the ways that you have worked to make Jay’s transition easier?

Crystal
I think the number one thing is finding her community. So we’re lucky that we’re in an area where there’s a lot of like services and health care. And this is like a known thing, it’s not unusual. And so we were able to call, there’s a gender clinic with our health care provider, and they have a support group for, like, gender diverse, kids, they break it up kind of by age group. So I kid, you know, we got in there pretty quickly. And that has been hugely helpful just connecting with connecting her with other kids going through the same things. And I would recommend that it heartbeat just because I think these kids feel like other, you know, often, you know, in a regular school environment, because I think, I think the statistic is, you know, like 1% of people are trans. So to find them, others that know what their experience is, is going to help with the mental health aspect. And, you know, I think it’s helpful as a parent to to have a support group. And so some, some places do, there’s gender spectrum, they run support groups, for parents who are navigating these things. And there are Facebook groups, too, that allow parents that are new to this journey to kind of work out their frustrations, outside frustrations, or anxieties or anything that’s coming up outside of, you know, their kids presence so that they can figure things out without causing any additional distress to a person who’s already like experienced marginalization.

Megan
Yeah, I’ve recently found out the parents group, or moms group, I guess that was that I was a part of when I lived in Texas, they have a splinter group, though that is specifically for parents of trans kids. And I just thought that was so cool and so helpful for people who are there’s so many people that are just coming into it and they they don’t know what to do next. Yeah. And to have the people that have like walked that road before. or help them out is is really important.

Crystal
Yeah, that I think the big group is mama bears. And they cover all kinds of things. But they have, yeah. subgroup for I think they have a couple ones, like one for LGBTQ in general and then one specific to transgender kids, or parents of transgender kids. So yeah, it’s helpful. And that’s kind of like, one thing I figured out through that, you know, going that route and connecting with other parents who’ve already done this is when I had to make the change in pronouns, it’s like, not automatic, often, for people, it takes practice, because it’s kind of a reflex, after, you know, years of using certain pronouns. So I figured out, oh, you got to practice, you gotta practice outside of talking to your kid. And you have to practice when people misgendered them to, you know, confront that and correct them. So that you can kind of prevent the harm. Because when trans people are misgendered, it can cause additional, like, emotional distress. And I want to prevent, prevent that as much as possible, especially for teen years when kids are so kind of vulnerable and extra emotional, and trying to figure out who they are, it’s helpful to have someone on their side doing those corrections for them.

Stephie
Right, as if the teen years aren’t difficult enough, when you feel like you’re part of the in group, if you like, add, add all the extra stuff like that. That’s gotta be a lot. So I, you know, I think that I think that that’s, there’s a lesson there for all parents in a way. Because I do often see parents like, almost like working through their shit around their kids. And I think that you have to work through your shit separate of your kids. And before you can take it to them, like you have to work through your own personal stuff, and all of those issues or whatever you’re dealing with, because otherwise you are it is just going to project onto your kids. Like they’re not they’re not stupid, they’re gonna pick it up. So yeah,

Crystal
I agree. I mean, I think there’s some thing to be said for showing them some of your vulnerability and some of the ways that like you’re experiencing difficulty, and being honest, but you also it’s a balance, you don’t want to cause unintended harm. And you want them to get the message above all that you support them. And that, you know, even if it takes you some time to, to adjust that they’re the most important thing to you. Yeah, absolutely.

Megan
So let’s talk a little bit more about language. There’s a variety of different terms and labels that someone can identify with, not to mention that many gender diverse folks find their pronouns change as their personal understanding of their gender changes. How have you helped you to navigate this? And how have you encouraged her as she explores her identity?

Crystal
Yeah, I think, well, the book that I bought was super helpful, the ABCs of LGBT, and it helps me as well of understanding because there are so many terms that I had never even heard of. That it really was great to get an understanding of that. And no, I think one hang up, I’ve noticed that some people conflate sexuality with gender. And you know, that book or similar books really helped break it down. Gender Spectrum, the website has good resources for also explaining both for yourself and for, like family members, if you have to explain to family members who just aren’t seeming to get it. That’s, that’s very helpful. And, you know, I I do want to emphasize Yeah, it can change. You know, when she first came out to me, she said, You know, I’m, I’m not a boy, but I’m not sure I’m fully a girl. I might be somewhere in the middle. And then I think it it kind of evolved a little bit like, I don’t know, some days I feel like I have no gender and Sundays. I feel like I am a girl. And then now, you know, four years on, she’s, she feels like okay, I’m definitely a girl. Roll. That’s how I identify. And I think the other thing that I noticed that changed is she was very open about it. When she first came out to me, she came out to me, then she went to school and kind of let people know, hey, I’m a girl, this is these are my pronouns. This is how you know me now. And as time has gone by, and I think as she realizes some of the dangers that she is in and, you know, dealt with more people who aren’t welcoming and aren’t great about it, she has gotten more private. And, you know, maybe that’s just a function to have being a teenager now. But you know, I didn’t expect kind of in those early days that I didn’t, that I needed to protect her privacy in that way. So I’ve had to kind of go back and make changes, like I went through all my social media posts, and changed her pronouns. Everything that was out there, you know, from yours, and because sometimes her friends found me on social media. And I didn’t want that to be the way that they discovered that she’s trans, I wanted that to be her story and her to be the one to tell them that. So there are different ways that I’ve come to see that I need to kind of make sure I’m not sharing anything that she wouldn’t share herself. And make sure that there’s less to go back and fix as things change. For instance, there’s school records, she has an IEP at school, from the time she was eight, she had that. So school records refer to her as he, in the early days, and it’s very hard to get those records changed. But there is a new law, at least in California, that says schools have to change their documentation, if you request it. So I think that’s moving further along in terms of realizing that we need to cover our tracks in terms of protecting student privacy, and keeping them safe. Because, you know, she’s expressed to me that if people know she’s trans, they are more likely to miss gender her. She’s had people use the wrong pronouns. If they don’t know she’s trans, and they only know her with she her pronouns, then that doesn’t happen. So yeah, I’ve just been had to learn to be extra careful and share it with trusted people. And listen to her and follow her lead on all of that.

Stephie
Can we actually go ahead, I have this a little bit further down in the questions. But since you brought up the school system, I’d love to talk about navigating the education system as a parent of a trans child. Like I think I’d love to hear about navigating the education system and navigating the medical system, because those two systems I think, are difficult to navigate. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. And I imagine that as a parent of a trans child that just is compounded.

Crystal
Yeah, I mean, it’s easier. I think it’s easier than it ever has been before. Right. Like, there are more conversations. People are way more aware that that kids figure out that they’re transgender, and schools have to respond. The tricky part is the like, I’ve looked at the Student Handbook, and it clearly was written not as intentionally Excluse, exclusionary, but definitely written by people who believe or who own are only considering girls and boys. So kind of my approach has been to be a bit of an investigator, look at the school policies, look at the handbook. See where they are being very binary in their descriptions and their policies. Like an ask those questions. I’ve written emails to Superintendent. I’ve written emails to the school board and asked what are your policies around transgender kids? How do you protect them? from harassment at school, how do you protect their privacy if they are stealth and not sharing the fact that they’re transgender? Are your forms? And the way that you address parents? Are those inclusive to kind of address? Like, are you using moms and dads, because maybe there are people who don’t go by mom and dad, maybe there are people who, you know, there’s just such a big variety, but people have not kind of made it a priority to update their existing like forms and policies to be inclusionary. So I, that’s my recommendation to every parent, not just parents of trans kids, like the more people who are asking these questions and examining these things, the faster we’ll get more inclusive policies and schools. Other than that, it’s, it’s been surprisingly easy, because I think for us, again, we’re in an area where it’s not unusual. We have not had, like, any difficulties with regard to gender at school. They said, you know, use whatever bathroom you want to use. And they had in, you know, one of my questions that she was going into middle school was PE, like, locker rooms are pretty much separated by girls and boys. So, you know, she identifies as a girl. So it’s pretty easy for her to just use the girls locker room. And if she doesn’t feel comfortable dressing in front of other kids, then she can they do have a private, like, room where anybody can use to get dressed. But that’s another question that you have to ask. Because if your kid is continually going into school, and everybody’s being separated by boys and girls, and they don’t fit, what do you know? How does that make them feel as they have to do that again and again, every day? So

Megan
they covered that specific issue actually pretty well. I feel like in the show Sex Education.

Crystal
Oh, I haven’t seen that one.

Stephie
Oh, you have to

Megan
watch. You should watch it. It’s very good. It’s great. There are a few students that they don’t, they don’t explicitly say that any of them are trans, I believe. But they are non binary. And they do explain, like, you know, they, they show them being uncomfortable changing in the locker room. So they go into other places to change. And then they have like a weird, sex ed kind of class. And then the students are like, Well, where am I supposed to go? What am I supposed to do? So it’s, it’s refreshing to show too, that they’re showing this on TV too. I think that, like, it’s not just that it’s happening out in the real world. But having it as a reflection on media is so important. I think

Stephie
a lot of us like a lot of videos on my tic tock feed from teachers who are trying really hard to be inclusive in their classrooms. Either teachers who are trans or non binary and talk about their experiences as trans or non binary, narrow teachers who are out to their students so that their students can see like, either you’re not alone. And, you know, I also have seen, like, I saw a lot last year, around this time of year, a lot of videos of teachers who would pass around like note cards to each of their students, so that they could write down like, you know, this is my name, like this is, this is you know, what name you have on your record, but this is my, the name that I go by. These are my pronouns, yes, it’s safe to share these pronouns with my friends and my parents, like different information so that the teachers can know how to refer to their students and make them feel safe while also keeping them safe. Like if they aren’t out to their parents or something like that. And it just gives me so much hope for the world. Yeah. Like, well, I love teachers and the fact that there are teachers out there who are working so hard to make their students feel safe. Like that’s, it’s makes you feel like okay, the world isn’t totally fucked. Yeah,

Crystal
absolutely. Yeah. It’s an it’s helpful, and I’ve seen that too. As she’s grown older. There’s definitely more of that like teachers wanting to ask right off the bat. You know what Are your pronouns. And as and teens like to explore things, so it could change. You know, sometimes kids try things on and they decide, you know, this actually isn’t what fits me. But I, that’s one of my favorite sayings is like, there’s no way out but through, like, I know people question like, What if this is a phase? You know, it could be, but you don’t know until you’re on the other side. So it doesn’t help to deny it or question just, you know, go with it as they figure themselves out and they’ll get it figured out. They just need the space. And, yeah, it’s so yeah, schools. I mean, for us, again, it’s been, it’s been pretty easy. But going back to the sex education, that is definitely something that I recommend people ask about as well and see if they can get a preview of the curriculum, I made the mistake of just, you know, saying, oh, yeah, of course, we want her to go through the sex education at the school, and not understanding that it was completely demoralizing to her, she felt. She just felt so depressed, going through that, and I saw the impact on her mental health, and I wish that I would have opted her out, there are agencies out there that parents can go to that offer inclusive sex education for LGBTQ kids. So that would have been a much better option than having her just go through that and feel like, both ignored and just, it’s a sensitive topic for her. So she didn’t have to go through that she could have been gotten it in a much more comfortable welcoming environment.

Stephie
think you’d make, I think you like inadvertently brought up a really good point. Because typically, when I think of people have parents opt in their children out of Sex Ed, I think of the ultra conservatives, oh my God, my pet, my kids gonna learn that sex is a thing. Great point that like, that’s not the only case where you might want to opt your kid out of it, that you could be the complete opposite of an ultra conservative and but you’re actually protecting your like, you’re actually protecting your kid. Yeah,

Crystal
yeah. And a lot of the sex ed are split up again, between boys and girls. So where do non binary Kids Fit? How do they you know, they’re going to be forced into a group that they don’t kind of jive with. And that’s going to make it that much more uncomfortable. And I’m, you know, I’m not trying to prevent my child from experiencing discomfort, but when it’s something about that is like, deeply personal and related to her identity. And that has such a huge impact on her mental health. I want to be very careful and very protective of that, because the, you know, the, like suicide rate with trans people is very high, unfortunately.

Stephie
Yeah, for sure. So we talked a little bit about, you know, the education system. And you mentioned that you that your your doctor’s offices have been pretty good. Has there been anything as you’ve gone through the medical system that has been particularly challenging as a parent? Like, how is that how has that been?

Crystal
Yeah, surprisingly easy for us in terms of once I figured out that our health care provider had a gender clinic, and they kind of had everything ready to go, it was like one phone call. Okay, we’re going to connect you with the gender therapist, we’re going to connect you with the medical team. Here’s the support group. It was easy to gain access through our health care provider. The difficulty comes in with finding a PCP that is gender inclusive, and they’re not all you know, and then in a lot of a lot of healthcare systems, you don’t really get to pick who your doctor is. So I’ve had to go and like ask for recommendations of like, how do we find somebody who isn’t going to forget constantly that you know, that her like genitalia doesn’t match her gender identity? So it’s that part has just taken a little bit more work. But I think it’s, you know, everybody needs to kind of research who they’re gonna see. And that’s not just a thing with gender. And the other thing is that I think the medical system is set up for people who are either clearly male to female or female to males. So they’re like, Okay, if you’re a transgender female, you get estrogen. And if you’re a transgender male, you get testosterone. Now, there’s people who are gender fluid, and people who are concerned about rapid changes that hormones can bring. And the healthcare system isn’t so good about those like gray areas and the nuance. So you just need to be an advocate, you know, for yourself or your kid of like, this is, you know, we want to follow her lead, she’s not necessarily going to be in this like, flowchart of like, okay, we’re doing this, that and the other, because maybe she’s not fully ready for, like to fully commit to estrogen.

Megan
Right, especially as a teenager, you’re dealing with so many other things already. Yeah. To add that onto it would it just is another layer?

Crystal
Yeah. And I mean, I don’t mean to say that, like, they just give you hormones, because they absolutely do not. And Right, right. But it’s just they think they try to put you in a box, which is what you know, any system does, because they want to make things more efficient. And you need to remind them, hey, I’m a person. And there’s different options that I want to explore. So some people go on, like a very low dose of hormones, so that it’s not this rapid change, because I think anybody who’s had like rapid body changes, like either rapid weight gain or loss or even like going through pregnancy and having that, like, Quick Change, it can be disorienting. And teens, I think, also experienced that just going through puberty, and realizing, oh, my gosh, I don’t know this body, I don’t understand how it works, what’s going on. So adding in hormones, as as kids get older, like getting into the teen years. It’s just as nerve racking as puberty is. And I think doctors forget that. They’re like, Oh, everybody goes through puberty. It’s just a normal thing. But if you haven’t yet, and you’re entering puberty, and you have that additional kind of concern about like, what, you know, why is my puberty different than my peers? Then? Then it just takes a little bit more care?

Megan
Yeah. There’s a reason why Middle School is like the worst years? Yeah, yeah. Anyone? What do you wish more people understood about parenting gender diverse kids?

Crystal
I think that it’s not something like I don’t think about her gender all the time. It isn’t the focus of our day to day, we, you know, that is the least interesting part of my child. And I think it’s just, if most people would understand that, like, it’s a pretty mundane thing, like gender. I mean, some people really enjoy expressing their gender and talking about their gender. But some people just want to get on with their life and not have that be a focus. So sometimes I’ve you know, talked to my daughter about gender. And she’s like, Hey, you know what, I don’t really want to talk about this. I don’t want this to be a topic of conversation. Can we just talk about, you know, my favorite TV show? So, just understanding that, like, I’ve heard some folks that have complained that, you know, why does it have to be in my face? Why is Why is this person always have to point out their gender or their pronouns? And it’s like, they don’t if you get it, right, and if you use their proper pronouns, they most likely don’t want to talk about

Megan
it at all.

Crystal
So that I think that’s, that’s my that and just kind of correcting the myths. The the kind of myth that I see a lot. Discuss online that hormones are just handed over to kids, because they’re not kids do not get hormones.

Stephie
They’re not candy. Yeah, yeah. gummy vitamins.

Crystal
I’m like, Yeah, I mean, for the most part. Medical, anything prescription related is hard to get. And that includes hormones. And so, you know, we didn’t she didn’t get hormones at 12. That’s not how that goes, she got a puberty blocker while she was trying to figure out what her identity was. And that was like for a short time, and then later on, we talked about hormones when she was puberty age. And so that’s something that people probably should to learn more about, if like, what is that trajectory? What does it look like? And understand that just like any other prescription, it’s not just like, go pick it up at the store. It’s it’s not going to happen that way.

Stephie
Excellent point, also, such a great point about I think every team deserves just be like a normal teen.

Crystal
Yes, yeah. They need to just figure out who they are outside of their gender like and not be. My cat has joined the podcast

Stephie
has a lot to say. Funny because that because your cat actually sounds a little bit like Megan’s old cat. So I had this moment where I forgot that rune had passed on. And I was like, Wait, that’s

Megan
not rude.

Crystal
Yeah, so yeah, he’s he likes to sit under my desk, and meow in meetings. So we know how that goes. But yeah, like, you know, kids still want to be kids they want to do and this is true of adults, too, that are trans. Like, they have so many passions and things that make them them and gender is just like one small piece.

Stephie
All right. So you mentioned a couple of resources before, I’m going to link to the book that you mentioned in our show notes. But what other resources would you recommend for parents of kids who are starting to express their gender diversity, or maybe family members who want to support a gender diverse child that’s in their life,

Crystal
Gender Spectrum is kind of my my first stop shop, they also offer, like a gender support plan that you can use when you’re having these discussions at school to make sure that school is on board with supporting your kid. And they have scripts and things that you can use when you’re announcing to family members. So it’s been super helpful. Yeah, it’s great. And Facebook groups, there are a number of them, you do have to do some digging, because they’re trying to maintain privacy. And so they’re mostly private, but mama bears has a really great one that’s very active. So I would, yeah, I would recommend that there are various influencers, that if you’re just trying to figure out and understand more, and like get used to now being part of the community, because you know, as parents, we are interacting with that transgender community that, you know, for people who are new to that, it might take some getting used to or learning terminology. And there are lots of influencers out there that are helping people kind of understand and get comfortable. One of them is make a Miko art. And I can always send this to you too, so you could put it in the show notes. And there’s another excellent nonbinary influencer, who’s been around for a while named Jeffrey Marsh, and love Jeffrey, oh my gosh, they are so like, full of love and lights, and just

Stephie
I just want I want them to just narrate my life. Yeah, their voice is so soothing. It’ll

Crystal
I love it. It’s It’s just what they’re so welcoming to every person who you know, no matter where they’re at, in terms of understanding and knowing like the lingo or and it just gives people kind of space and so I highly recommend that they’re also kind of like a motivational speaker and they have a book that is geared toward that too. And then And then one other thing, I don’t know the name of it, but I know there are several books that are kind of like workbooks for figuring out gender. And that can be helpful helpful to teens, but it can also be helpful for parents who are kind kind of, I think there’s a lot of people who just have never considered gender, they’ve never really thought critically about what it is to be like, a woman or a man or. And they’re just kind of thinking about that for the first time and being like, you know, well, what, how’s this different for my kid? How is it different for me? What does it mean to me and I think it’s great to kind of go through that process. So that you know, look up on, you know, Amazon or your favorite indie bookstore. Agender workbook.

Stephie
Love it. Crystal, thank you so much for coming on, and being so open and sharing your story with us this was I really enjoyed our conversation. And I hope I hope our listeners will too. So thank you so much. And let’s talk about what’s bringing us joy this week. Crystal, what is something that is making you happy

What’s bringing us joy?

Crystal
this week. Um, so my son started school, it’s he’s in second grade, and he just went back and I was walking him into campus, which was pretty cool. In in and of itself after the pandemic, we didn’t get to enter campus, really. So that’s nice to step foot on campus, but they also have decorated his campus with fairy houses. So all over the school Oh, it’s, it’s just adorable. So the kids can just go and like, hang out by a fairy house if they want to pretend they’re in a forest or something. So I kind of want to do that in my backyard or something. It would just imagine walking down the street and just seeing fairy houses and random I was

Stephie
just thinking like, we put these like downtown Bloomington. Like this would be great. I’d love some just like little fairy houses. Just it everywhere. Yes, yes. I

Crystal
mean, it’s kind of like in line with the little free libraries. You see sometimes I just love that like community. Spirits being spread about

Stephie
so cute. I love it so much.

Crystal
Yeah, it’s fun. That’s what’s bringing me joy.

Megan
Stephie what’s bringing you joy?

Stephie
Um, I ordered I y’all I fell prey to a Facebook ad again. And I’m so susceptible. And I ordered Edie and I bad Shane sweatshirts. Mine has a slice of pizza on it. And hers has the whole pizza with the slice missing. And they’re just really fucking cute. Like, ready for cooler weather so we could wear them now.

Crystal
Adorable.

Stephie
I pulled them out of the package. And Alex just looked at me and he just shook his head. You know who you married? I am who I am. I refuse to apologize.

Megan
Get it in now while she’s still young? Yeah,

Stephie
right now she likes she likes to wear cute things and match with mom. So you know, I’ll wait for her to tell me that she doesn’t want to anymore and then I’ll cry a little bit for now. Megan, how about you?

Megan
They finally released and I benched through the Sandman series on Netflix. Oh, it is very good. If you are a graphic novel fan slash Neil Gaiman fan. They did a great job adapting it from the graphic novel. There’s like scenes in the show that are like clearly they used the picture in the graphic novel to like, set up the scene. Which it just it looks great. It’s beautiful. Feel like it really captured the essence of the comic. There’s one episode that’s like really, really disgusting. So Stephie if you like skip through that one if you watch it Stephie

Stephie
make sure you tell me which episode it is. So then like well, maybe I should watch this.

Megan
I don’t I don’t remember which number it is, but it takes place in the completely like in a diner. So if you get to that episode, just you just gave her that one. Oh, yeah, I heard that. But I thought it was really good. And I’ve been a fan of his writing for a really long time. And I think this project was something that they’ve been working on for a really long time as well. Like I think they’ve been trying to make a TV adaptation of it for a while and I think like I wouldn’t say like technology but like just like the culture wasn’t there yet. You know, like the just all the ways that the things that they needed to be able to do it justice. I think it’s kind of all felt So, yeah, I really liked it.

Stephie
It’s got some great actors in it to look it up. We’ve got Gwendoline Christie couldn’t be held up T C. Patton. Oswald like there’s some. There’s some great names in here.

Megan
Yeah, Scott David Thewlis, the person who plays the main character I had never heard of before. But he’s great. He does a great job. So yeah, I highly recommend it to anyone who likes that sort of thing. And especially because I just finished watching Outlander and I really needed to get that out of my brain.

Stephie
We gonna do an entire episode. Your thoughts on Outlander? We do not

Megan
have enough time to talk about my thoughts on Outlander. That is for damn sure.

Stephie
I got all of the texts in real time. It was it was a riot. Oh god.

Next week’s episode

Megan
tangentially related to Outlander, I guess. Next week, we’ll be starting a two week series on sex beginning with our own sex origin stories.

Stephie
So until then, leave us a review on Apple podcasts and follow us on social media at IRSIpodcast. You can also send us an email at Idratherstayinpodcast@gmail.com We’d love to hear from you.

Megan
Bye

Transcribed by https://otter.ai