Hello! Welcome to episode 117 of I’d Rather Stay In. This week, we’re talking to artist and art professor Ruth L Poor about how art can serve as a form of resistance.

Episode transcript

Megan
Welcome to I’d rather stay in with your hosts Megan Myers and Stephie Predmore. This week we’re talking about art as resistance with our special guest, Ruth Poor. Stay tuned.

Stephie
Do you love listening to I’d rather stay in and want to support the podcast? Well now you can visit our website or the LinkedIn or Instagram profile and click Buy me a coffee or visit buy me a coffee.com/irsipodcast. For the price of a cup of coffee, you can help us cover the costs of creating this podcast. There are no monthly memberships and you could support us at whatever level you’d like whenever you like. Whether you buy us one coffee, many coffees or simply continue listening as always, we’re so grateful for your support

Hello, hello.

Megan
Hi Stephie it’s been a while. It has been a while we had a nice little summer vacation.

Stephie
We did have a nice little summer vacation. You actually went on a little vacation.

Megan
Yeah, we just went to Arkansas, which is where we go I guess now every year it’s kind of our our thing that we do we meet up with some friends from Texas, and all our families hanging out together in a rental house and it’s really fun.

Stephie
Well, and then you and Bob went to Vegas. Yeah. Forgotten, especially for your couples trip to Vegas. Yeah, we

Megan
went to Las Vegas for our anniversary, and you helpfully watched my children. And

Stephie
we mentioned them to eat. It was

Megan
yes. There are a whole thing. We wouldn’t eat it all the places and it was fun and relaxing. Roy

Stephie
Choi like nodded at you or waved at you or something, right?

Megan
He gave me like the, the like head nod the head like because he was like so what happened was okay, so we went to Best Friend’s restaurant that Roy owns in Las Vegas, and he was at he was there in the kitchen. And which Alex was very

Stephie
impressed by by the way that he was there or that he nodded, that he was there? I mean, both, but primarily that he was there.

Megan
Yeah. So the people that were sitting on one side of us, like, were people who like worked in the restaurants, they were like restaurant people for Vegas, like and other hotels. So like they kind of knew. They’re like seeing people, you know, like when Alex was your restaurant, he knows like all the people. And so like one of the ladies that was there, like knows him. And apparently, were the other people at the table, who is not a restaurant person. It was her birthday. So like, she got them to come over, got him to come over. And he like, took a picture with that person. And then he just kind of like made his way around the restaurant, basically. And so he like, came over past our table. And I was we were like Bob and I were talking and so he like kind of waved and I did like a smile nod thing at him. But then he took a picture at the table next to us on the other side. And then he just kind of like went through the rest of the restaurant. It was cute. I’m not the kind of person that would be like, I didn’t take a picture with the chef. I know. But it was cool. Yeah, it was nice. And His food was really good. And it was like a lot of food. We got the chef’s like tasting menu situation. So we could try as many different things as possible. And it was so much food.

Stephie
I am pleased by all of this because well, this came up in conversation with Alex. I think when we were I think when we were up in Wisconsin for the fourth because we were talking about how so often like now like celebrity chef restaurants like half that like 99% of the time they’re not there. The food isn’t that great. Like they’ve just gotten so like overhyped. So I was like, oh, Megan and Bob actually went to Roy choice place in Vegas and he was there and she said the food was really good. So I was like a nice little like, there’s still some of them that are good.

Megan
I think to I think part of it is that he got famous from food trucks. Yeah. So I think that might have a little bit more to do with it because you’re like more in the in the like, people facing trenches when they like run food trucks. And also I remember eating one of his food trucks like 1000 years ago at a food blogging conference where they brought all these food trucks in and the koji truck was one of them there. So it

Stephie
was cool.

Megan
Oh man, like a million. Yeah, so but it definitely his restaurant had been recommended to me by lots of people, but also before it had even opened. I knew that it was coming and I knew that I wanted to go there. So I was really happy that like it lived up to my expectations. So yes,

Stephie
yes, that would have been a bummer. So I was yes. happy that you guys had a good experience.

Megan
Also, they serve a variety of boozy slushes.

Stephie
So I do love that I do.

Megan
I had an orange creamsicle boozy slash. And it was fantastic. Who

Stephie
they’ve been working on a boozy, orange creamsicle out at the restaurant, the restaurant that I work at, for brunch. And I have gotten to taste a couple of the, like, iterations along the way and I would have not been mad about that. I’m like, Oh, you’re you’re you’re tweaking the orange creamsicle recipe and testing that again. Oh, I think. Yeah, I need to taste a little bit. See? Yeah. Love that. Love that. Yeah,

Megan
that’s what I like to do in Las Vegas is go to the spa and eat food. So

Stephie
it’s absolutely fair. I was telling you that I know someone that was in Vegas, like, right before you and then like kind of overlapping you. And because her she like followed her husband. They’re on a business trip. And so while he was working, she just she went to the craft store got a bunch of crocheted stuff and like sat by the pool and crocheted and then basically did the same thing. Like went to the spa got some food about the time all the like, gamblers came out from their hangovers. I was like, I can do that. That sounds that sounds doable.

Megan
Yeah. I tried to think about how many people are there around you? Yeah,

Stephie
yeah. No, absolutely. Not us too much. That was too much. So this was also your first time flying since the before times, right?

Megan
No. Reason I went to Austin in March. That one when we went in March, I remember getting very anxious about it. That’s right. It wasn’t as bad this time. But the first time I remember I was like so anxious.

Stephie
Yeah. Yeah, that that I still have it. I still have not flown. So like pick it a friend up at the airport. Later today. And even though I’m just like, airports what I don’t want anyway.

Megan
All airport, so it’s not a problem.

Stephie
I know. That is very helpful. I could just like pull up and I live like two seconds from it. So I can be like, Hey, did your plane land? All right, here we go. Here I am gonna pick you up at 10 o’clock at night. Um, so today’s episode that we’re gonna get into. I don’t know if anyone’s been paid attention to the news, but it fucking sucks. Just like just like a small bit. So out of our feminist rage, we have, we have decided to tackle today’s topic.

Megan
So there are many things that we can think of as acts of resistance in this day and age. But we tend to forget that for 1000s and 1000s of years art has been used as a form of protest and resistance.

Stephie
So to give us her insights on this topic, today, we are joined by a painter, art professor, and my baby cousin, Ruth L Poor. Welcome, Ruth. Hi, everybody.

Megan
Hi, Ruth, can you tell your our listeners a little bit about yourself?

Ruth
Sure. Like Stephie just said, my name is Ruth. I’m an art professor in the Chicago area. I live in her Bora. I’ve been working as an artist for I would say at least 16 years now, I’ve always been attracted to the arts, in terms of art as resistance or its application to political matters. That’s something that I’ve been really interested in more recently, also activated, as you said, through some sort of feminist rage. Definitely. Over the last few years, it’s built up a bit more in my mind and what I can do in my own in my own art practice and how I can engage with my community community in a meaningful, sort of meaningful sort of way. I teach at SAIC, so the School of the Art Institute of Chicago. And I yeah, that’s just a little bit about me. I graduated from there with my MFA in May so I am now going around and teaching there so they can’t get rid of me.

Stephie
Even if they’ve tried. So before we like fully dive into this topic, I’d love for you to tell everybody about You know, your own background and personal history with art. Obviously, we’re cuz we’re first cousins, we’re eight months apart, we grew up together, basically like sisters. So I sure know a lot. I know that like, from the time, you could hold a fucking pencil in your hand that everyone was like, Oh, my God, Liz, the talent. Um, so I but I would love for you to just kind of give the listeners a little bit more background in, in, in your own art history?

Ruth
Sure. Yeah, I definitely started drawing. And when I was very young, I think I just had a difficult time, like a lot of artists fitting in. And there’s something that’s comforting about the some what hermetic practice of drawing or reading or, you know, something like that. So, I’ve always been attracted to the, the relationship you can have with the paper or with some sort of medium. And I think it’s a very intimate and rewarding practice. Whether it be drawing, or quilting, or embroidery, or whatever you choose to do. I think it can be really rewarding practice. And so I’ve always been attracted to it for that reason. And, yeah, as I got older, I mean, I definitely got some attention from the family. But it was something that even as I became more interested in other areas, I eventually went to undergrad for religious studies, I couldn’t quite shake away my that, that art bugs. So I’ve always been trying to challenge myself as an artist, you know, growing up, and it was something that I just couldn’t get away from. In terms of activism, that’s something that’s happened within the past few years. Within my own art practice, as well. So it’s, it’s something that’s just grown with me. I’ve, I don’t, I can’t think of a period of time that I’ve, I don’t know, live without having art in my life. And so it’s very important for me, even in a spiritual sense, and admitting to be a spiritual person is kind of new for me. And I’m, I welcome that reading. I don’t know, I just can’t think of a time that I’ve not had art in my life. It’s it’s always been there. It’s always been something that I could do. Sometimes it’s escapist, but escapism, I think is kind of problematic now, in terms of how political everything is. So I’ve started to make a turn in trying to make that hermetic practice be something that’s not so readily selfish, not saying that it is selfish to do something for yourself. But I personally just find that there’s a lot of history and privilege tied up in art. And so there’s part of me that also wants to acknowledge that, as well as acknowledging the history that art can act as resistance. So there’s this sort of dual edged sword that I think arts had throughout all of time.

Megan
When was the first time that you really thought of art as a form of resistance? Was there a specific tipping point or was it more of a gradual shift?

Ruth
I think it happened probably pretty quickly. And it was when I went through my Postbac program at SAIC, which is a one year program for people like me who didn’t go to art school that were a bit more maybe self taught. And eventually you go in you take the, the this program for a year and it sort of jumpstart you to get ready to apply to grad school. A lot of medical schools have these programs, but it’s kind of newer in the arts to have that so there is a large push to find artists that are from other backgrounds, and trying to integrate them into the art scene to make this really rich, sort of area that crosses between I’m like my friend who went to school at MIT for mathematics, I just graduated with them. It, it’d be, it’s just such a diverse program and how you’re able to shape yourself. But being around all of these different people, I was really able to see on a very large scale, how different types of art making could be used as a form of resistance, which I had never thought even really thought of before. And a lot of my art history classes Well, I remember one of my first I think maybe people I was inspired by that I learned was Karina can choose a nun from the 70s, who created really fantastic posters in the San Francisco Bay Area, and helped to build an active community. Around the time also, Martin Luther King was alive knew him very well knew Gandhi very well. She really inspired me. Even though I am not like a strictly religious person, I definitely look toward religious people in how they create, in part because they have hermetic practices that I can relate to. But also because they’re trying to actively engage in their communities in a way that’s somewhat foreign to me. I grew up in rural Indiana, and there really just isn’t a big art community there. As Stephie and I know, growing up in Attica, Lee,

Stephie
unless you like really enjoy paintings of covered bridges, which are lovely.

Ruth
Hey, I got a nice one out there, you know, right. But that’s like kind of it. Yeah. So I, it happened, I think pretty quickly. in a relative sense. It was definitely started because I was engaged in a really rich art community, and being exposed to all these ideas that I hadn’t before. So it was very important for me to make that sort of movement through a community based practice.

Stephie
So then how would you say that art has served as an act of protest in your own life? And like, as you kind of think about it, do you feel like, perhaps art was serving that purpose before you in your own life before you even were truly cognizant of it?

Ruth
Yeah. And that was something you know, it was, that was actually a really big question we had in one of my seminars. When I was in grad school, one of the questions that was posed to us is, how do you resist? And that was the question that we were left with at the beginning of the semester. And over the semester, we sort of answered it in our own ways. And in my own practice, I, I’ve sort of broken it up into different sections. I’m still building myself as an artist. I feel like I could probably say that for the rest of my my life, I’ll

Stephie
say I feel being myself lifelong journey, right? Yeah,

Ruth
yeah, definitely. You realize you how much you don’t know at some point. There’s at some point, you realize you’re like, Oh, my God, there’s just such a big world out there. I can, I could probably do this the rest of my life and still not know everything, which is exciting. But also a little daunting. Yeah, I think it was definitely doing it. Before I was really aware of it, it I was able to transition pretty quickly. And I think that’s why because I already was acting in resistance, not knowing it. Um, and I guess I shouldn’t say that. Totally. I can be a very contrary person. I’m like, oh, like, I don’t know, I can definitely be assistant personality. I would not fare well in like the army for example. I No, absolutely not. But in my own practice, I think it’s I some of the I was when I was preparing for this podcast, I was going through finding artists that inspire me and they have all these really grand, you know, sort of operations but mine isn’t at least when it comes to resistance. I don’t think of it as being as grand as it is practical, which I’m hoping that At leaving the podcast today, listeners understand that there’s such a wide range of art in the multiplicity in the forms that it can take. In my own practice, what I think is resistant is the time that it takes me to create something. We live in a very, very immediate and hyper sensationalized culture, at least in where I live in Chicago in the United States. I don’t know where all of your listeners are from. But in this area of the country, as in many areas of the country, there’s this push of under the guise of progressiveness, to constantly be engaged to constantly be producing to be working to be a cog in some sort of machine, which sounds like I just pulled that from like a Pink Floyd album. But it really it’s this, that we’re supposed to be constantly operating, and creating in order for us to have some sort of merit or worth. And for me, taking time away from industrialist production, or from any sort of capitalist system, taking time and slowing down, I think, is add ins to what capitalism tries to push. And so even when I come home, there are things that I could be doing for work, there could be other things that I’m doing. But taking time to rest and restore in itself is an act of resistance against capitalist systems. I think that I think we’re told not to rest, we’re told that we need to constantly be producing. And so I think it’s very, very important for us spiritually as people to be able to have those points of rest, and to be able to have that release, where we’re carving out room for ourselves to live and think authentically. And I think that’s very important for us to all be able to do as we start moving forward into question, all of those things that we’re doing art making, for me allows me to question the things I’m dealing with in my life, and I’m able to sort of put that out on a canvas, or in a sculpture, whatever I’m making, or a piece of writing, and to be able to go through and even parse that later, where it’s such a reaction assist, or a reactionary kind of system of socializing with one another. I think it’s add ins with even our socializing practices to take time into practice and letter writing, or all of these other things that really forced us to slow down. So in my own practice, that’s how I think of I think of art as resistance. Just in a in a smaller scale, something that we can all do.

Stephie
I love that. I love that.

Megan
Why do you think that art is particularly powerful type of activism and protest?

Ruth
Um, that’s a hard I think that’s a hard question to answer. I think part of it is based on the fact that we’re such visual people. Throughout history, are is been used as a means to communicate. If you’re if we want to swing real, you know, something that’s representational, political and old, I’m thinking ancient Rome, using sculptures to even just acknowledge presence of leaders in areas or how art is used to communicate the the threats of war. Throughout history artists been used on both sides of the political spectrum, as means to either be sometimes abolitionist and sometimes it’s used in poster creation. So there’s this dual edged sword throughout history of art making and representation as both being something that can be seen as resistance, but can also be seen as a career gaiter of strife and war. So I think it’s important. Going through our understanding art history, history, just in general is i i was not a big history buff growing up, I didn’t have the best history teachers, I think that might have been why but now I’m very into history other than just art history. And I don’t know, it’s, it’s just really interesting to see how both sides of it can be used. And in a more contemporary sense, I think of art you used as commercialization, or art being used in all these different ways that drive us to do things that we aren’t even really sure why we’re doing it. That’s why there’s so many case studies being like, well, this should be this color, because you’re more likely to buy something, if it’s in this certain shade of red, you have all these focus groups that are set up to go through all of our responses and to see what our gut reactions are in a way to trick us into buying something or a way to trick us into believing something. But like how propaganda operates, I don’t want to say that there’s a really tight fuse between those two things, but there is connection. And so I think it’s important to acknowledge both of those things. When understanding the history of art as resistance is that there’s just as my, one of my advisors, I had Lauren bond, who’s a really amazing artist, one of her famous quotes is artists need to create on the same scale, that society has the capacity to destroy. So yeah, she she’s, she’s really fantastic. She’s purchased a parcel of land, and water in California part of their water right ways, gifted it back to a collective of indigenous communities. And they’ve been using that parcel of land to push back against policy that pollutes rivers in California. So we have collectives that are now trying to purchase land in order to create it a non hostile environment. So she does so that so she does something on a very large scale and quite like literally purchases land. So her art acts as policy. Her art acts as relationships as community as resistance as activism, and acts as all of these things. And it’s really, it’s really interesting, but you don’t even you don’t have to be

an artist like Lauren to practice resistance that way. Someone I really admire her name is Marilee, you Kaylee’s who’s a New York City artists, she works for the New York City Department of Sanitation. And she used her job to in 1989, to transform the landfill into a park in Staten Island. And so she used her job at the time as a sanitation worker and use what she had at her disposal in order to create space and existence that’s non toxic. The more we start to read into environmental racism, we realize how many landfills and toxic places are placed in your low income communities. And then we wonder why there are you know, so many cancer patients in certain areas of the country, we wonder why so many people are sick. And it’s, it’s really not that much of a wonder. Sorry, I went off on a little bit of a tangent on a couple artists I really liked. They’re fascinated by trying to think of I’m trying to think of all these different artists that act as resistance in different ways and on different scale. And so those are those are people I think of as resistance and people who inspire me even even though I don’t work in that way, I wouldn’t have the slightest idea of how to go about that type of policy. For example, tomorrow I I volunteer with the prison and neighborhood art project, which is an abolitionist group. I recently He completed a portraiture project with them, creating images that are supposed to be countered to the carceral system. So creating portraits that aren’t entirely based off their mug shots. So I created several portraits of the graduating class for the University Without Walls program through state bill, and created these portraits of these men in ways that humanize them and remind us that there isn’t an us versus them, there is space for an inside or an outside, there is a community, and they are still part of the community. And so trying to find ways to create like murals, for example, that the men inside have designed, and then people that are in the free world are able to create because you’re not really able to keep your artwork, even post conviction going being returned into the free world. You don’t have you’re not able to keep your artwork. It’s kind of the site there. But for example, state Ville part of P nap and some of the other Chicago land organizations, nonprofits are creating an area of land that’s right next to state Ville, but they also purchase that we’re creating a seed quilt for tomorrow. So using indigenous plant life, along with a lot of other wildflowers to create a landscape that can be actually viewed from the prison and against something that you’re greeted with a pawn leaving the prison that there’s some sort of Hope involved. So and that’s done with a collective of artists and abolitionists?

Stephie
That’s incredible. You know, I think that there’s I think there’s something to say too, about how, like, there are there, there are pieces of art, like you’re talking about that are that are very overt in their protestations. And then, but, you know, I think that’s interesting, because it can be sneaky, too. And I think about when I think about this, I think about a lot of the artists in Spain during the Spanish Civil War, and how so many of them were imprisoned, simply for creating. And you think about Picasso, who, you know, has on his shoes, but everyone thought that he was just a fucking weirdo with his art, like, they didn’t understand what the fuck he was doing with his art. And so when. When they bombed Guernica, and he painted about it, like he, his painting, if you understand what the painting is, it’s literally screaming at you about this atrocity that happened. But he did it in you know, he used his, his cubist style that everyone was like, Oh, he’s a fucking weirdo. So the people that he was like, screaming about didn’t get it. They’re really good. Like, I was just weird out, oh, this is a weird painting. And so I’ve always found that found it so interesting how, like, if you get it, it just screams it at you. And if you’re not supposed to get it, you’re just like, Hmm, I don’t know.

Megan
Yeah, that’s one of the things that I really love about art in art history is like it’s subjective. And also, like, it can have that subtlety where some, like two times two people can be looking at picture and one person will totally get it and the other person will be like, it’s a picture.

Stephie
Looks nice. I don’t know. Yeah.

Megan
That’s my favorite thing to do. I like any art museum or any place where there’s art if I am looking at art, and I just see something that makes me stop and stare at it. There’s just something about art that I like so much about.

Ruth
And I think that’s what a lot of artists definitely try to strive for. It’s definitely what Picasso would have wanted with Guernica for you to stop and acknowledge the atrocities that are happening or I mean, damn, yeah, I’d love for people I love when people stop and ask questions about my artwork, or if I’m around and I can help you know, after answer questions like if I have a show or whatnot, but most of the time your art is away from you, you don’t have as an artist, you’re not going to be standing next to your art piece the rest of your life. And we’re told that a lot while we’re in school to be conscious of the fact that this artist really becomes its own thing, once it leaves you like it becomes something that people can interpret that it becomes like you can plan as much ahead as you want to. But people are still going to take their own readings from their artwork, depending on their background and their understandings of whatever, you know, subject matter. It is. Yeah, Guernica is such a powerful painting in part two, because of its scale, it’s a huge painting.

Stephie
Oh, it’s so big. I don’t think I’ve ever sat and just in front of a piece of art and just studied it longer than I have with Guernica. It’s one of my favorites. It’s really powerful

Ruth
piece that way, in part because the also the subjects are about life size, if not a little bit more. And so there becomes this very eerie parallel that happens whenever you see a subject that’s life size. I think a lot of a lot of religious paintings really hinge on that too. Especially, there are several I can think of in the Art Institute as well. Trying to think of there’s a Titian painting I’m thinking of specifically. And it’s an it’s an altarpiece painting, that set closer to the floor where the figures are life size. And it’s meant to be something that could be like, Oh, I could walk into this portal of a painting. So it kind of helps with that scale.

Stephie
I spent a lot of time I spent a lot of time in the literary world. And, you know, I see how there are, we’ll call the certain subsets of people who would really like to skew any political connection with their favorite art forms. And in the literary world, like we see how so many of our favorite stories are inherently political. So some examples would be, you know, Lord of the Rings, Hunger Games, the Marvel Comics, Harry Potter, the TERF notwithstanding. So sort of thinking in this vein, do you think that it is possible to have good art that is not inherently political in some way?

Ruth
Um, I think it can be difficult to do. I think the more you work abstractly and non objectively, and push away from representation, it’s easier to get away from that. But unlike, that’s where I think a lot of like paintings, for example, the kid for and a lot of the fine arts kind of break off from the literary arts is that a lot of literary arts tend to work within our own world, or within our own understandings of how things operate. And it’s it’s difficult not to work representationally. And for it not to be inherently political. I think for example, if I’m going to do a literary example of this, it would be where the crawdads sing. I can’t think of her name right now. She’s under a lot of fire as she should be. The woman who wrote where the crawdads sing is, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Julia. It’s been under some fire recently, in part because of her representations of black people as being racist within the book. Because she herself is a white woman who is creating a story with black characters, but they’re ones that she has made and given a dialogue to. I think of it being problematic for a lot of reasons. And she also like I did some research on her recently because we are thinking about it as being like a book club book that we would read, but we ended up deciding against it. She has a history also of writing another book about how a really racist book about people of Sub Saharan Africa when she lived there for like a short short period of time. And so it’s a journey. Yeah, I love that. And so it’s, it’s difficult for someone to create a story written about someone that’s not writing about someone that’s not you and then profiting off of it afterward, I think is what’s especially problematic is her profiting off of her stereotyping. There, it becomes something different when you’re creating artwork versus when you’re profiting off your artwork. And that’s purely symptomatic of being in a capitalist system. I don’t think there’s anything wrong trying to live off of your art practice, it’s something that I try to do, and every artist tries to do. But when you’re making money off of that type of misrepresentation, that’s where I think, you know, things start to get pretty problematic. It’s the same with Gosh, I’m not doing too good with names today. Who wrote Game of

Megan
Thrones, George RR Martin,

Ruth
thank you. It’s the same thing with all of the rape scenes as well, you have this really powerful rich white man that’s kind of relishing in writing all of these rape scenes, not to say these relishing in it like I don’t, I would hope at least that you don’t get too much comfort from writing about things like that. But it becomes again, problematic that you have this man writing a fantasy story that all of this violence takes place within the, within the realm of that story. And again, it’s because you’re working with characters and working representationally to. So I personally, it’s, it’s a really hard question for me to answer. I’m sure if I really sat down and thought about it, I could think of some good examples of you know, who might, you know, come to mind. But really, all I can think is problematic people.

Stephie
It’s interesting, too, because, like, you know, when you’re talking about, like, when we are talking about like, literature, or we’re talking about film, or you know, anything like that, that is a little bit more of an art form that larger populations are digesting and taking in. Like, I think you’re right, like, with, with, like, painting, photography, sculpture, like any of those sorts of art, like, you could get really abstract and nobody’s like, gosh, that’s, I mean, that’s weird, like, whatever. But if you get too far off of what you what the general populace understands, in books, or in movies, then everyone’s like, Well, that was just fucking weird. Like, why did that? Why did that win an Oscar? Why is that? Why was that even in theaters? Like I don’t understand that I like I remember when shape of water won the Whoa, picture. And everyone was like, That’s a fucking weird movie. And I was like, I don’t know, I kind of liked it. I really beautiful. It was the most visually beautiful movies I’ve ever seen. And like, did I fully get it? Like, no, but I’m also like, I don’t know that I was supposed to, like, I don’t know, I just Yeah, I was kind of enjoying it. So I think of things like that we’re like, you there’s this there’s this sort of no man’s land that certain mediums of art can go into that others can’t. Just because of the way that people like if if those artists want to be quote successful, like, I suppose yeah, I’m sure there are tons of writers and filmmakers who you know, I think of like indie filmmakers, and writers who are who are publishing under like indie presses and things like that, that are just writing and doing the things that they love, and they don’t really care if the masses pick it up or not. In fact, they would probably prefer that the masses didn’t pick it up. But yeah, I think that I think that will you know, because those are like art forms that are, quote, supposed to be like wildly, like widely circulated. There. We get this, like, well, needs to be something that we can see ourselves in.

Megan
I mean, have you read House of Leaves? That is like my prime example of a book that like is total art form book. Yes. Because

Ruth
it’s pure. That’s something interesting too. And it’s one reason I I tend to work representationally in my own work, I haven’t talked about exactly what I paint or anything. I think that’s very hard for me to describe what I create. But I do work with figuratively. And because of that I’m very constantly engaging in a political realm. And so it’s something that you don’t really stray away from. I’m kind of it’s a it’s a, it’s a family thing. Stephie knows we’re opinionated people. And I would rather be I would rather be wholly honest and upfront, in order to learn something or to shape myself, then I guess why to myself? I yeah, I don’t know.

Stephie
I mean, listeners know, I can’t even tell someone their baby is cute if it’s not true. So like, they’re figuring like, Hey, we’re related and they’re already following.

Ruth
Okay. Well, people’s baby’s ugly. Stephanie.

Stephie
Don’t tell them that their baby is cute. If it’s not true. I say oh,

Ruth
hey, oh,

Megan
they’re so smart.

Stephie
Like you were Yeah, if you just say a fact in the right tone of voice, they think that you’re telling them that their baby is cute when really your brain is going oh my god, that baby looks like an alien. This is not okay.

Ruth
That’s smart. Because that’s what I straight up say so much. That’s much smarter. I like that. I will steal

Stephie
NPR for a while. Great job.

Ruth
Yeah, apparently my customer service skills never really kicked in the spine. It’s fine. It’s fine.

Megan
What are some of your own personal favorite pieces of art that are or were politically inspired?

Ruth
Um, I talked about Lauren’s work. That quote I gave about Lorincz there’s a giant neon piece of that her quote artists need to create on the same scale that society has the capacity to destroy is a giant neon sculpture like billboard size. And I love that most of the artists that I look at politically are not painters. And it’s not that painters or other fine artists don’t work politically. It’s just there’s something that’s, I think, really impactful about operating with in systems of policy. It gets outside of the art bubble in a way that really fascinates me. Merrily, who Kaylee’s, like I said before, who is the New York City sanitation worker? I think her conceptual art and her process as domestic and civic maintenance is really interesting to me. Someone who I’d been reading recently I decided there. I know you guys are you like books? So I pulled out some books. One of the poet who I’ve actually been reading quite a bit of is Reginald Dwayne Betts, he came out with a book of poems under the book title felon, and there’s he was incarcerated for a long period of time, and has all these really impactful poems. But what I find most interesting and visually stunning, are these redaction poems that he creates. I really, I’ll try to explain it, but it’s essentially the Civil Rights core got him a bunch of legal documents based on like bail, and a lot of these, like just jail sentencing sort of level, not necessarily for prison. But this redaction poetry, as there are four poems in this collection, all based in different states, and there are legal documents that the Civil Rights core filed to challenge the incarceration of people because they can’t afford to pay bail. So the poems use redaction not as a way to block out the knowledge, but as a technique that reveals like the drama in the injustice of the system Mmm that makes people simply a reflection of their bank accounts. And so there’s really powerful just ways in which the marking is done. So I would really recommend that if anyone’s interested in poetry or abolition, any of those things I would highly recommend felon by Reginald Dwayne Betts. So those are some artists, I think that I was thinking of, I was just kind of scribbling down before we sat down. That that really inspire me.

Stephie
I love that. If, if any of our listeners want to follow along with your own work, how can they do that? Um,

Unknown Speaker
I only do one social media now. I am an Instagram person. I didn’t think I would be one but art school has turned me into an Instagram person. So I am @ruthlpoor if they want to follow me, and I’ve got more information. That’s sort of seated in my Instagram page.

Stephie
I love it. And you recently just posted a couple of new pieces that you did. One of which I like I seriously cannot stop looking at out of the garden like I it is maybe my favorite. It’s maybe my favorite that you’ve ever done. Really? Thank you. I cannot stop looking at it. I love it.

Ruth
That one I was so I was questioning whether I liked I liked the color relationships of that one and there’s some fun glitters things and embroidery I did that I really liked but it was. I don’t know. I was like I was a little worried about but I’m glad I’m really glad to hear you say that.

Stephie
No, I love it. I love it. So. So yeah, we will link we will link to your Instagram in the show notes and on our our own Instagram. So if you guys are interested. Go give go give my little cousin a follow. I almost called you Liz again. Ruth. I know we’re like grown and you’re supposed to be going by your real name. Now, Ruth.

Megan
Hey, I leave that l

Ruth
I leave that l.in there for a reason. It’s for it’s for all the slip ups and slip ups. You know what my sister tried to call me Ruth the other day and handed her I was like what the fuck did you just say to me? And

Megan
she was like, Oh, that’s right.

Stephie
Don’t call me. Absolutely not.

Ruth
Absolutely.

Stephie
Thank you so much for coming and and teaching us and this was so interesting. I always love hearing you talk about what you do, because it’s so it’s so different from what I do. And so it just it brings me so much joy to hear you talk about it. So thank you for being here with us today. Thank you. Let’s all share what’s bringing us joy right now. Liz, you go first.

What’s bringing us joy?

Ruth
Oh definitely my cats are bringing me joy right now. I have two cats and they comfort me all the time when I come home. One’s a little rag doll and he just kind of lays there so he breaky he’s just lays my arms he’s he’s my little baby so he brings me joy my cats bring me joy right now that’s what I’m thinking.

Stephie
I’m Cora got her fucking ass locked in Eden’s bedroom closet while we were gone over the July weekend. Oh, this is not the first time she’s done it. She’s done it before also over Fourth of July weekend, but that was like five years ago. And she like I was like, Are you fucking kidding me? Like I came because we took the dogs with us. And so like, Meghan usually would come check on the house. And she did it. Because we had the dogs and so he came home and I was like Bruce Cora, like I will see you around and then I just hear this. You stupid. Like, I like let her out. And she was just I mean, she was fine. She was just like pissed. I was like, Well, you know what, this is what you get for being sneaky and sneaking into closets and every open door you see, so don’t be a sneaky shithead so I’m glad that your kids are bringing you joy because that she really annoyed me in that moment.

Ruth
She really brought me great.

Stephie
She really brought me a great man. Megan was bringing you joy.

Megan
Let’s see. I I’m trying to think of something better than what I have. But I don’t really have any. I got a new microphone. So hopefully, it sounds better than previously. And it’s a it’s actually a gamer microphone. So it lights up in rainbow colors. While I’m using it, and I’ve just been staring at it like the whole time because it just like it just go like right now it’s green, and now it’s flowing into yellow and purple. And then it goes into blue. And

Stephie
I know I just might as perfectly serviceable. But now I want the one that has the rainbow colors.

Megan
Oh, the other thing I actually remember something that I wanted to talk to you about yesterday, we watched the show Baymax on Disney plus, yesterday. It’s just like little short cartoons are only like 11 minutes long, which was slightly disappointing that they were so short. But each episode Baymax the character from Big Hero Six, like a inflatable health care person, robot, he helps a different person. And in one of the episodes, he helps a girl who gets her period for the first time. And the way that they dealt with it in the show is just delightful and lovely. And it made me think of turning red as well. And also made me wonder why we didn’t have such lovely and delightful ways to talk about our periods when I was in middle school because that would have been nice. What am I great with, they just treat it like how normal it is. But they also like a dress like she’s scared about it and nervous and everything. And he goes to the store to like byproducts. And all these people are really helpful. And it’s very cute and adorable. And Kathleen, I really appreciate it.

Stephie
Kathleen was saying like one of the people he talks to is, is a trans man, I think two or something. Yeah, right. So I like I love I love that representation in there as well. Yeah,

Megan
it’s great. Um, I don’t know, I don’t know who’s over there working on these smaller projects, I guess. Both like the attorney red team and the the Baymax team, but there’s definitely people there that are like, look, we need to talk about these things and put them in churches or shit. Yeah, it’s not just singing princesses anymore. It’s great.

Stephie
I love it. Well, how can we get them in charge? There’s just more things not Yeah,

Megan
I mean, they have a lot of other problems going on over there. But like there’s there are people do trying to do the things.

Stephie
Yes. Get those. Get those people. We need more of them. That’s amazing. Yeah. I love that so much.

Megan
Stephanie, what about you?

Stephie
So we went up to Wisconsin to spend the Fourth of July weekend with Eden’s birth family last weekend, and our guests a couple of weekends ago now when this airs. And so Ian’s birthmom cows are her favorite animal. And so we ditched the kids and we ditched the husbands. And I surprised her with a tour of a dairy farm while we were up there. And it was actually it was like one of those where I literally Googled, I was like, cow petting. Oh, man, I would really like

Megan
to go so many ways.

Stephie
I was like, I really think it would be fun to go pet some cows with Taylor. And I ended up finding this dairy farm that was like pretty close to where they live, it’s like 40 minutes away, and actually ended up being a delight. And the lady that is like the co owner of the farm, it’s like her husband’s parents farm that they inherited. And she does these tours as a way to like, bring in extra income and help educate. And she used to be a teacher, like in a classroom setting. And now she’s, you know, a dairy farmer. But just the way that she was teaching and all the stuff she was talking about, like we learned so much. And we learned so much about the industry, and you know, how they, how COVID affected them. And like, I don’t know, and we got to bottle feed a one day old bull calf, and I thought that Taylor was just gonna die and go to heaven in that moment. And he was so sweet. And it was really funny because we were there there was like, the two of us. And then there were these two other families who were definitely just like, normal human beings who were like, I think this sounds like an interesting thing to do. But we’re also a little bit out of their element. And then you had Taylor and I who were like asking all of the questions, and we were like, super into it. And we that when we got the chance to like, kind of cuddle and pet the cows. We were like, oh my god, this is the best thing ever. And we were like didn’t care if we got dirty and then they were like got snot on us. We were like bring it on, like practically making out with these these beautiful cows. So anyway, it was absolutely delightful and we had a great it was like one of the best times I’ve had in a while and I learned a lot so it’s just like such a nerdy little time.

Megan
That’s adorable. Yeah,

Stephie
if you’re in No like kind of southern Wisconsin, sort of central southern Wisconsin, I guess that would be area. Hensley’s dairy farm is delightful. And apparently if you go in the fall, they also they have pumpkin they have like they grow a pumpkin patch so that the little kids that come on the tours can all get a free pumpkin. So because she was like you should come back with your kids in the fall and get a pumpkin. I was like, oh my god, the kids would just die. They would love seeing the animals. So anyway, that was that

Next week’s episode

Megan
I love it. So next week, we are going to talk about aliens.

Stephie
So until then, leave us a review on Apple podcasts and listen to us on your favorite platform. You can also follow us on social media at IRSIpodcast or send us an email at I’d rather stay in podcast@gmail.com We’d love to hear from you.

Megan
Bye

Transcribed by https://otter.ai