Hello! Welcome to episode 91 of I’d Rather Stay In. This week, we’re talking about mental load.

Quick links

• Scrub Daddy Sponges
• “You Should’ve Asked” comic
• Mental Load: Managing a burden you can’t actual see
• Making the Mental Load Visible

Episode transcript

Megan
Welcome to I’d rather stay in with your hosts Megan Myers and Stephie Predmore. This week we’re chatting all about mental load. Stay tuned.

Stephie
Do you love listening to I’d rather stay in and want to support the podcast well now you can visit our website or the link in our Instagram profile and click Buy me a coffee or visit buy me a coffee.com slash IRSI podcast for the price of a cup of coffee you can help us cover the costs of creating this podcast. There are no monthly memberships and you could support us at whatever level you’d like whenever you like. Whether you buy us one coffee many coffees or simply continue listening as always, we’re so grateful for your support

Hello, hello.

Megan
Hello Stephie

Stephie
I’m so we need to talk about bones tok.

Megan
Sure Okay, there today is SC Today was a no bones day so there was no bones day. I felt it.

Stephie
I did I wanted to. So for people who are not on tik tok or who are not on this side of tic toc there is a fellow by the name of I think his name is Jonathan he has a pug who is 13 years old named noodle. And every morning he doodle wakes up and this guy goes over any like props noodle up and if noodle stays standing he has bones that day and if he flops back down he has no boats and it is become sort of this like cult following like horoscope replacer like what kind of day is it going to be Is it a bones day or a no bones day? It’s excellent.

Megan
My favorite has been like the companies that have been posting their own reactions whether it is bones day or no both somehow I got on getting this historic reenactment account God like as some museum or something in somewhere and they do like you know 18th century historical reenactment and they were doing little fun bones no bones day videos It was very cute.

Stephie
I know I like need to suggest to the social team at work that they do one like for like on a bones day of B leg oh yeah my it’s a bonus day everybody your curls are going to be poppin or like something because it is very funny all of the all of the accounts that are like responding to the bones and the no bones and people are I just say you would Susanna one of like this gal that has the sea shanty she sings that she like read it it be like about middle the pug like it’s excellent it’s excellent content so if anyone is wondering noodle the pug is just sweat skin to predict whether it is a good day or a bad day.

Megan
While we’re at it Can we talk about the apparent choke hold that scrub Daddy has on social media I’m sorry what?

I up here to constantly and it’s not just on Tick Tock It is also on my Instagram this people I follow on Instagram who are constantly talking about scrub daddy sponges. I just keep seeing it. Like they’ll do like post like displays a scrub daddy sponges we’ll be talking about their scrub daddy sponge somebody’s got like they did like a special

Stephie
one that has like smiley face on it. Yeah. But it had to look it up because I don’t clean enough to know what a scrub daddy sponges.

Megan
I mean I you’ll see them all over the place. Now that you know that we’re talking about it and you know what it is? But I just don’t. It’s a sponge. Like maybe it’s amazing. You guys maybe it’s the most amazing sponge on the planet. I don’t know. But I’ve just been seen it so much and I’m just a little questions for people.

Stephie
It seems like it would just be a sponge.

Megan
Yeah, they were on Shark Tank. I don’t know. Apparently it’s a whole thing.

Stephie
Hey, yeah, I have a lot of questions. Let’s see, it seems

Megan
and I’ve seen them. I’ve seen them at the store. And I looked at them because we actually did need sponges a couple weeks ago and I could not tell what made them so special

Stephie
yeah I don’t it’s they say they’re America’s favorite sponge rich I mean I guess maybe it’s true you’re seeing them everywhere but uh yeah it’s not very clear to me like what makes them more special than just like a sponge from like

Megan
anyone any other It is funny that it says that that’s their thing is that they say they’re America’s favorite sponge because I have not really seen like sponge commercials in a while have granted I don’t everything streaming now so I don’t watch commercials. But I do remember there was a time when sponges for dominating media were like can’t can’t have that sponge you have to have this spacey sponge here you got micro bacterial blah blah blah blah blah and maybe we’ve moved away from sponges but or maybe just everyone has this scrub daddy sponge daddy whatever there’s like a line there’s like a scrub daddy there’s a mommy there’s possibly a baby i don’t i don’t

Stephie
know it’s very I mean I’m like I’m i i don’t i don’t know i don’t i don’t know why it has such a hold on social media or America apparently but I guess maybe we need to like purchase one and try it and see like why people are obsessed

Megan
maybe I think it made me think of it because I believe that the actual scrub daddy account came up on my for you and then they might have possibly been doing a bones no bones video

Stephie
oh it’s the intersection of yeah diagram of your for you page

Megan
and then I just started seeing more scrub daddy stuff but I was confused

Stephie
because you also follow that one like cleaning account right? Or is that

Megan
on the follow them on Instagram? But that’s the thing I’ve been seeing them on is I’ve been seeing scrub daddy stuff on Instagram. But they go clean people don’t talk about scrub daddy.

Stephie
Oh okay. Well I was gonna say if you follow the go clean people on tik tok maybe tik tok picked up on this like cleaning thing and that’s why it’s feeding you scrub daddy content but I know I don’t have a I don’t have I don’t have an answer for you on that.

Megan
The short of it is if you have a scrub daddy please talk to us.

Stephie
Please like let us know what the fuck is up with this smiley sponge? Like our questions

Megan
thing I don’t get it. It should be by demographic because I’m old and have a house and in theory clean things. But I don’t it was funny

Stephie
because Eden and I were over at our neighbor’s house on Sunday hanging out and visiting with her and her we were in our living room and like on one of our tables, she has a box of Kleenex and then she also had a little spray bottle water because she uses it to spray her youngest cat has kind of a maniac sometimes and eat and like pull the Kleenex out of the box of Kleenex and then she grabbed the little water bottle and like acted like she was like spraying it on the table and then she like use the Kleenex to like wipe where she was had just acted like she sprayed and I was smelling cracking up and I was like I straight up don’t know where she learned this because it was not for me. Like school probably I assume that maybe they must wipe down the tables and stuff after lunch and snack and breakfast and stuff at daycare. And that’s what she’s learned because I was like it’s not what it’s not for me. Like Good on you kid. But this was not I did not teach her this.

Megan
Yeah, when kids are really young, they’re randomly very interested in cleaning.

Stephie
Well, I need to really make better use of that then because

Megan
they’re not effective. But

Stephie
I mean, I neither am I. So I don’t do it very much because I’m not very good at it. So you know, it’s fine. So, speaking of taking care of things around the house, we are talking about mental load this

Megan
week. Yes. That is also something that has been on tik tok a lot lately, but it’s actually not a new concept. Be some people have been talking about it for years and years and COVID really put it into high level perspective for a lot of people.

Stephie
Yeah. I think COVID did for a lot of things. I think COVID kind of woke us up.

Megan
And a lot of ways. Yeah. I think that’s a good way to put it. Yeah,

Stephie
I think I think we all just sort of had a collective awakening about things in our lives that we were putting up with, that we don’t necessarily, like didn’t need to be putting up with. I think that’s that’s why a lot of people have been leaving their jobs and finding new jobs or starting their own jobs, like their own companies. You know, we talked to Jen last week about life coaching, and she kind of had a situation like that. And so I think that COVID has, while it’s done a lot, not a lot of not good things, right. I think it is sort of brought into perspective, some things in our lives. And I think this concept of mental load, and the pressure that moms and wives in particular put on themselves, is one of them. But before we go further in the conversation, even though I just said moms and wives in particular, I do want to make it clear that this is not a like, this is not something that is only pertains to women, it is something that can absolutely happen in like same sex relationships as well. where one person is taking on more of the mental load than the other person.

Megan
Yeah, absolutely. And also just want to preface by saying like, we don’t need any not all men comments, because obviously that is true. However, I think, in general, people, you step back and look outside their own perspective, they will realize the disparity that is going on here. I know a lot of people would be like, Well, I do this, and I do this, and I do this, I’m like you do but that’s not what we’re saying. It’s not mental load is not simply about who is doing the chores in the house. Yes, it is. So much more than that. That is

Stephie
correct. So Megan, tell us tell us what it is.

Megan
So it’s kind of it’s almost hard to explain, because it just kind of exists. It is. It’s everything. It’s all the things that live in your brain that you remember to do, or that you have to remember to do. So there’s a really good comic illustration that we’re going to link to you in the show notes that I remember reading a while ago, and it’s kind of like lays it out. So talks about how you know, you want to do a simple chore like clearing off the table, so they clear off the table, but then they go to put it away. And then along the way, they find a dirty towel, and the dirty towel has to go in the laundry basket, which is then full, so then you take the laundry to the washing machine. And then you put that in there. And then because you put your groceries over by the washing machine, you see that the food needs to go in the refrigerator, and then you’re putting the food way and you see that you need to put stuff on the last shopping list and everything kind of compounds and then you’re making a mental list of all the other things that need to happen and then that one single task will have taken two hours. Because you are compounding everything that you do, and you can’t just get the one task. It’s very similar to ADHD. But also it’s related to like, not only that you like put your laundry in the washing machine, but then you have to remember, you’re going to be the person who remembers to move it into the dryer, you’re going to be the person who notices you don’t have any dryer sheets left you need to go to store to get dryer sheets, you’re the person to be the person the sweater doesn’t go in the dryer so you have to

Stephie
lay it out.

Megan
Then you’re going to remember that you know you’re putting if you’re putting you know your kids clothes in the laundry, you’re gonna remember that that pair of pants actually doesn’t fit the kid anymore. So you need to take it out once it’s clean, so it can go in the donation pile. All of that.

Stephie
Yeah, it’s a lot of like, I think that a lot of people who are married have probably encountered times when your spouse like you’re frustrated because you just did all of that stuff. And then your spouse was like, why didn’t you ask me to do it? And because

Megan
we shouldn’t have to ask right

Stephie
because it all just lives in our brain and that it’s like some of the things that I’ve been seeing on tik tok like this gal like she’ll find videos where this is sort of a Yeah, there’s a crossover between mental load and weaponized and competence, which we will also discuss at a later time. But like, it’s like saying to your partner, Hey, can you put dinner in the crock pot tonight. But then you’re like, you know, in order for that to happen that you have to like, set out the ingredients and the recipe, and remind them to do it, and then follow up to make sure that they did it. And like there’s there’s a, there’s a mental checklist that you’re going through, to make sure that all of these things happen the way that they need to, to like make sure that you have dinner on the table that night. That falls outside of just like saying, Hey, can you put dinner in the crock pot tonight? And then just knowing that it’ll happen,

Megan
right?

Stephie
So and again, like, for the most part, the it is often I think the woman or the wife who female partner who is experiencing most of the mental load and the male partner who is not. But like, this can also happen again, in same sex partnerships. I think that there is often one person who tends to kind of take on the brunt of that mental load probably just based on the personality, I would assume. But yeah, it often tends to be a female thing.

Megan
Yeah, I know, people will be like, Well, you know, women are just more maternal. And that’s really the reason why they just, they just want to do all these things. Like Trust me, I really don’t want to have all this living in my head. Yeah. But I know that if I don’t have it in my head, it won’t happen. Like, my children will have no socks without holes in them. The only food we will eat is takeout, or macaroni and cheese. It’s and it’s also like, like you said, we will talk about weaponizing competence later. But it’s also the kind of thing where the knowledge of having all this stuff in our head, and we just know it. And it’s just, we just know it. We know what needs to happen. We know what needs to get done. We know all the things that are tied to it. We know that if we’re asking for help, it will be done wrong. Not to say wrong. But like, if you ask in the example before that I was given about clearing the table. If you ask your partner to clear the table, the clue the table, but they won’t do any other things they won’t will they put they won’t send the dishwasher and right well wipe the table notice, right? They won’t wipe the table down, they won’t notice if a towel is on the floor, they won’t notice that something is not there for dinner to put on the grocery list. They see the thing that is like in front of them. Yeah. And then they’re not like looking ahead to plan for what’s coming up.

Stephie
Yeah, I think this article that we’ll link to, in the show notes to like talks about, like, mental load is about a lot about making sure your family is thriving emotionally, physically and financially, today and to eternity. So like, it’s not just like, are we surviving? Like, are we thriving?

Megan
Yeah, that’s like a feel like right now. That’s really loaded question too.

Stephie
Right? Yeah, I think that here in these unprecedented times. That like, so many wives and mothers have become taken on like, okay, not only my, like, housekeeper and mother, and probably, you know, potentially working a part time or a full time job as well. But now I, you know, also have to make sure my kids are getting their schoolwork done remotely, that they’re paying attention on their resumes that they’re like, I have to play with them more because they can’t go play with their friends in the neighborhood. Like I have to make sure that they are like on the brink of a mental breakdown because of all of these things like there’s a whole lot and then of course, like potentially worrying about your family’s financial situation. If You know, your job was impacted by the, by the pandemic, like there’s a whole lot of extra things that fell on a lot of moms. And a lot of women during the last year and a half 20 months I don’t know if like however long it’s been that just like made that even even crazier.

Megan
Yeah, I think it women disproportionately either had to leave their jobs or lost their jobs during the pandemic and by default became the, the teacher and this the stay at home mom, whether they wanted to be or not. And also the, I think something that is kind of got out of favor in terms of terminology is that parents are mothers in the like the 50s used to be called homemakers. And it was really all about managing the home. And now it’s all about being a stay at home mom. Mm hmm. Um, and I would say the job is a little bit different. But I do think it’s just an interesting perspective where now that that moms are expected to be so much more hands on with their kids. I mean, as any kid who grew up in the 80s, and 90s knows, like, we would be shoved out the door and not expected to be seen until dinnertime. Right? Um, but now you’re supposed to be very hands on with everything with your kids. And, but also, you’re still supposed to be the homemaker. So not only are you managing everything that your children need, and giving them extra attention, but you’re also doing the budgeting, you’re making sure that you know, whatever food that you have can stretch for the entire week. It is just it’s interesting how, in general, it seems like society is progressing so much. And yet, at the same time, we are making the default parents have even more responsibility than ever before.

Stephie
Well, and like we have no, we have no fucking childcare in our country.

Megan
Yeah, childcare is very expensive. And I’m not. It’s ridiculous. Yeah. And I think and that childcare professionals should be paid. Yes, probably more than what they are being paid. Yes. But the problem is, is that you cannot, it’s really hard to have. Yes, it is very hard to have a job that covers childcare. Yes, it’s full time childcare, yes. And so like, because of that, that adds to all of the mental load

Stephie
of making sure your children are cared for, and like all of the things that have to happen. And like I genuinely think that like, if our country had better child care, or just like caretaking policies in place, because like, it might not just it might not just be childcare, it could also be caring for an elderly parent. It could be caring for a spouse that has chronic illness. Like there’s a lot of different types of care that is not that are not remotely covered in our country. There are no policies around really and so. I think just having like that would alleviate a lot of stress and mental load on so many people.

Megan
Yes, I 100% agree. I’m not really sure what solutions we’d be able to come up with for that, because people seem really averse to

Stephie
basic concepts like universal health care and simple things like yeah, totally, totally Well,

Megan
I mean, yes, but it’s more that they don’t, they don’t want to pay taxes higher than what they currently pay. And yet we look at all these other countries that are, you know, on the same level as in development as our country and they, they have health care they have you know, paid maternity leave for like a year. It’s kind of crazy. Yeah, so I it maybe eventually we’ll have some movement on those things. Unfortunately for now we just kind of have to cope along. But at the same time, we are so separated from each other in terms of a community. Whether that’s because of, you know, COVID, or, you know, General what’s the word distrust of the people around us? You know, we want to find our tribe, but we want to find the people that we can get along with. I don’t know where I’m going with that. But I think there’s a lot of reasons why mothering communities are not what they used to be. And aside from the fact that, like, we need to remember that people used to have way more babies than they do now. And they used to make those older kids take care of the younger kids, thus freeing up the mom to do the other stuff, right?

Stephie
Yes, that’s right. Yeah. And then there are people like us that have, like one kid or two kids that are not old enough to care for the other ones and religious like, Okay, um, so we’re, I think, also, even if you didn’t have like big families, like a lot of times, there would be like a neighbor kid down the street, or you would live really close to your extended family. And so you might have like cousins, or like older cousins, or something that could help and that’s not as common currently, as I think it has been in the past. So that’s another that’s another difference. Um, one of the articles that we pulled that we will link to, it also gives some specific examples of how mental load and emotional labor are a little bit different. So I can just kind of like want to run through that a little bit. Because there, there are some there are some similarities, but they are actually different. So like emotional labor is really more views to describe the way that people are like regulating emotional expressions in the workplace. And so for example, like retail workers, or service, food service workers like being cheerful throughout their shifts, no matter what has just happened to you, like you got to go and you got to put out a smile, and smile for that customer. Teachers kind of maintaining that like calm and friendly demeanor, even if parents are being assholes. You know, flight attendants staying super calm and happy, even when passengers again are assholes. Or like, if something stressful is happening, like with a flight, there’s also that like, there’s also emotional labor and personal relationships like you might be on call like as the friend to help friends through like crises, I think there is always like kind of one in the front group, or your partner depends on you for emotional support, but doesn’t often reciprocate. versus some some like common examples of mental load. Having I get like we mentioned having to ask your partner for help. Having to give reminders to schedule like bill payments, or having to remind your partner to call and make an appointment for something that would have honestly been faster if you had just done it yourself. Let’s be honest. You’re a partner needing, like praise for doing necessary household chores.

Megan
Oh, can we just pause for that on that for a second? Because I would really love to rant

Stephie
love some embarrassed air, some grievances about needing, needing to have can leave or vacuuming or whatever.

Megan
I have a grievance about about co parents who say that they are babysitting their

Stephie
gut, which I want to be super clear as neither of our spouses we run out of our spouses are not airing grievances about our own spouses here. We have no because they would not be our spouse. That literally they would be dead so it’s fine. No, yeah. We do. Yeah, you don’t babysit your own kids.

Megan
They’re your own kids. They’re you contributed to this endeavor, you would not be possible for the children to exist if you did not contribute in some way.

Stephie
If you’re watching your kids, that’s called parenting. Mm hmm. Yeah, we had a family member not too long after Eden was born like say something about like, oh, now does Alex baby’s there and I like I from across the house. I was like, he does not babysit he parents. Yeah. It’s I also insulting to that parents. Wow. Say that?

Megan
and makes them it makes them sound like an absent parent. First of all, yes. And it’s just, it’s just ridiculous. I don’t like um, maybe. I know, some people apparently didn’t like spending time with their children. And they only want to do the fun stuff. But sorry. That is not parenting. I mean, kids. Parenting is a lot of not fun stuff. Parenting is mostly not fun stuff. It is mostly not fun stuff and the like 15% of things that is fun. makes up for it. But it is mostly not fun stuff. And yeah, that is the way it is like yeah, it’s that is what you signed up for.

Stephie
It’s kind of funny because like, one of my one of my friends, she’s a birth mom and her son. And then she has two child, younger children that she parents, and she talks a lot about how she’s like I am the son that I placed. I’m his mom, but I’m not his parent. And let me tell you being his mom is way more entertaining than being a parent. Like being a parent. Loki sucks. But like like being a mother like that’s the lovely thing being a parent sucks.

Megan
Yeah,

Stephie
so yeah, it’s a I yeah, I don’t I don’t care for I don’t care for the parents that say that they are babysitting their kids and they don’t care for the extended family members that ask like, oh, did you are you babe? Is Is your husband babysitting and the kid like no, my husband has parenting.

Megan
Also, I will just add to that, is that kids? Listen to what you say. Yeah. And they will they will internalize that. Like, come on. Yeah. Anyway, move on. You can continue with your list. Now to get that out.

Stephie
I appreciate your Aird grievance to other examples of mental load, just kind of keeping track of things like what Where are your kids going after school? What days do they have appointment? Do they have a permission slip that needs to be signed? Do you need to check and make sure that they finish their homework all that like little stuff that isn’t again that’s it’s not like there’s there’s not like oh, I did the dishes and now I have clean dishes like there’s just little details. Making to do lists, grocery lists chore charts, remembering that someone has a birthday coming up remembering that like your kids friend has a birthday party and so on Saturday at two o’clock and so you need to get a gift and wrap it and also remember to go to the stupid party like those are all things remembering like okay, we’re going on vacation so I need to do everybody’s laundry so that then I can pack so then we have to make sure that I have snacks packed for the car trip and then I put new paper towels and the car goes we used up the last one when little Jimmy spilled his milk in the backseat like all of that kind of stuff that is all the mental load stuff

Megan
yes and I you know you mentioned that you know checking to make sure that kids do their homework. It’s not just that you’re you’re checking to make sure that kids do their homework is checking and then check in and then checking and then checking, checking like how the

Stephie
homework never ends on the check you’ve never and

Megan
my husband is really good at asking my kids to do things before they can get their reward like there is the asks them to fold their laundry, ask them to do their empty the dishwasher to do their homework, but then he doesn’t he does so good to do so good with checking in to make sure that those things have been completed. Yeah. It’s like there’s two steps. I appreciate you. You’re confident they’re gonna do it this time, but

Stephie
just double check right? Because that age or like it may or may not happen, I also, I also do want to say one thing about this. And that is that this, this does not necessarily encompass this idea of mental load, like, it doesn’t necessarily mean that your spouse doesn’t do it to your specifications. Like, it’s really more of the, like you said, like, just kind of like the not following through in your example of like, okay, like, he asked the kids to do XYZ thing, but then he didn’t follow through to make sure that they did it. First is like, I think that this is particularly poignant with parenting, especially when they’re like little, your spouse may have your partner may have like a different way of doing things than you and that is actually okay. Contrary to probably popular belief, it is okay, if your partner does not do things, the exact way that you do with them, like they do not have to load the dishwasher the exact same way that you do it that you do, there is no actual right way to load the dishwasher, even though there probably is.

Megan
People who love the dishwasher and feel very strongly about it will say that there is a certain way to do it, correct? Like my view is that if the dishes are going in the dishwasher, someone’s turning it on.

Stephie
Perfect. Exactly, exactly. And like this was one of the things like when we were getting ready to become Paris, I think Kathleen was maybe the one that was like, just remember that, you’re gonna have different ways of approaching things as parents that and that’s okay, like there’s definitely things and like, in the household and as parents where you need to be on the same page. But like, if they don’t approach feeding your kid, the snack the exact same way that you approach feeding your kid a snack, if your kid is fed, for the most part, it’s fine, if they don’t cut up the cheese cubes and the exact way that you cut up the cheese cubes, it’s probably okay, like, there are certain things that you are okay to just say like, they do it a different way than me and that’s okay. And that’s, that’s not what we’re necessarily talking about here. So I just want to be clear on that. Yeah, and I like you didn’t do it my exact way you’re wrong. There’s a whole lot of stuff that just isn’t be thought of that I am thinking of, and I can’t stop thinking of it. And it keeps me up at night. And it wakes me up at two in the morning and I wake up in the suit as my alarm goes off. And I think about all these other things and it just never stopped. So listen to my head never stops.

Megan
I do also want to mention that we are talking about parenting a lot. And that is because we are parents, but this is not limited to parents Absolutely. Apps there are there are so many factors of mental load that don’t apply to parenting at all, especially if you are not apparent but you’re like either a pet owner or a homeowner, or have a car that you share or even if you have a car that you don’t share, like you’re sharing your life with another person, there is a high chance that one of you is experiencing mental load.

Stephie
Yes, totally.

Megan
And it’s exhausting.

Stephie
So in this article, they end with some ways to like bring up sharing the mental load and so I thought we could kind of talk through some of these ideas that this person has. So they some tips as I say, as this article says here’s some tips to get the conversation rolling. Continue to consider the time and space so choose a time when you have some privacy there are no distractions let your partner know that like you want to talk about something important with them so they’re not like also watching for football or something. Is that a sport that’s happening right now? Yeah,

Megan
I think it is indeed you are correct. I think actually maybe not basketball I was gonna say I think all the sports are happening right now it’s the weird confluence of everything

Stephie
Oh that’s right cuz baseball still going or some stupid shit yeah, okay.

Megan
You’re safe on any any sport reference right now.

Stephie
Baseball is a sport that never ends Okay. Um, so then find common ground so he, this person recommends opening with a shared value the equality in your relationship. So you might say, I know you value contribute really contributing equally to our relationship and I think you may not realize I have more responsibilities that go unnoticed and use it statements. So how often did we learn this in school? Here? Use I statements about conflict or I don’t know, whatever. Very therapy. Yeah, very, it’s very, very therapy with us. So frame things in terms of your feelings and experiences, rather than placing the blame on the other person. So instead of saying, You hurt me, for example, you would say, I feel hurt when you, blah, blah, blah. So you could say, I love that you cook dinner when I work, but I still plan the menu, make the grocery list and do the shopping. So I’m wondering if you could help with some of those things too. Or, I feel frustrated when you ask for a task list, when there are dishes in the sink, laundry in the hamper, and pet hair all over the floor, making a list of what needs to be done. And delegating, that makes me feel like your manager, not your partner. Or I appreciate your willingness to help around the house. But I wonder if you could try jumping in to help instead of saying, just asked if you need help. So those are some like conversations, starting points. And like, I’ll be honest, it might come down a little bit to like almost chore chart type of things. But that might be what just like what you need to like, make some of this stuff a habit for your partner.

Megan
Yeah, or, sometimes the thing that I do is I just kind of, I just leave it until, until he notices. I’m just like, I’m not gonna do

Stephie
it. And you end up with like chicken.

Megan
See what the thing is, is that it’s a game of chicken for me. Literally not no idea. No idea what’s happening. He just goes on with life where I’m just like, you know, I’m not gonna do another load of laundry. Like, we’ll see how long it takes before it gets full. And then you decide to do the launch. It gets very full. He gets really full. Like he runs out of underpants before he realizes.

Stephie
It also might be that, like having the conversation might help figure out where, like, where the best balance of responsibilities might lie. Like, yeah, I think that’s a good point. Like I generally cooked dinner. And I’m mostly fine with that. But then he like, recognizes that I will cook dinner and he does the dishes. Yeah, exactly. Which is a really good balance for us. Yeah, that and that was how it was a growing up. My dad never cooked dinner because we wanted food that was edible. And so my mom cooked dinner, but then my dad like 99% of the time would do the dishes afterwards. And he Oh, I mean, my mom would often like kind of just be in the kitchen helping just like puttering around or like chit chatting but like my dad and I would help like with the dishes. So like, I think having that conversation to figure out like where are where your like collective strengths lie. And even like the things what are the things that you really hate that they might not hate as much? Huh? Like, I fucking hate vacuuming. I hate vacuuming I would rather die than run the vacuum. So I mean, part of part of that is like we agreed, like, okay, we’re getting a robot vacuum, which I don’t hate. I don’t hate the robot vacuum. But like Alex knows, like, if a real vacuum it needs to happen. He needs to be the one to do it. I am just not gonna do it. I hate it so much. But there’s other stuff that like he just likes that I don’t necessarily hate as much. And so figuring out where that balances of like, okay, I’ve just been avoiding this because I don’t really like it that much, or I don’t mind this chore as much like, I’ll take that on as mine.

Megan
Yeah, that’s what we do too. And I think if you are starting to involve your children and chores, too, that is a really good way to kind of let them see what mental load can involve. And they’ll be the ones to notice, like, Oh, hey, I need to do my laundry. I need to take care of these things on my own and eventually like it takes a while but eventually, they will be like, Oh, I need this. I need to remember that. I need this. I need to remember that I need to do this and down the line it will serve to help them in their lives.

Stephie
Mm hmm. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. It’s that like thinking through like, okay, you’re going you guys you have a field trip tomorrow. What do you need to get ready for the field trip and like talking that through with them, I mean, and honestly, like, depending on the age of your kids, like you’re probably working through that in your brain anyway, like, okay, they’ve got a field trip tomorrow. So I have to do X, Y, and Z, like start talking that start start talking about it out loud with them. You’re doing it anyway. Like, start start having them like, okay, so you’re going on a field trip tomorrow. So is there something different that you might need to pack in your backpack? Or take with you to school that you might not normally like, those are helpful life skills? I mean, they are, right.

Megan
Yeah, they are. Max is the one in our house that reminds me that I need to wash the masks. Oh, that’s his mental load. Yeah, it’s very helpful, because I’m really bad at remembering.

Stephie
I don’t want to talk about how infrequently I remember to wash masks.

Megan
And also, I usually I try to do it by hand, too, which makes it even worse. Like I bring this up, I put it out myself, but someone else was saying how you should wash them with face wash. And so that made me start washing them my hand and this whole thing. So

Stephie
down the rabbit hole she went,

Megan
yeah. But now I don’t remember to do it. So because I never leave the house. Max goes to school every day with mask and that’s why he remembers twice. Yeah, and heart it. I know. And also, he started to be the one who like checks with the temperature is before he leaves for school in the morning.

Stephie
So cute. I love him so much. He’s such an old man. Check it as weather

Megan
guy to see if it’s gonna be cold or hot today.

Stephie
Funny. So Megan, any last thoughts on mental load before we talk about what’s bringing us joy?

Megan
Um, I would just say that if your partner seems tired, help them out. Yes. Don’t ask them what they need help with just kind of like look around, and and find something because they’re tired, and they don’t want to have to tell you what it is to be on. I would love for some day that my husband would look in their refrigerator and see that there is no food and take it upon himself to make a grocery list and then go to the store and fill it with appropriate things to eat. That’s that I instead of like, the next two meals, like a whole week’s worth.

Stephie
Well, yes, although, to be fair, I’m not very good at getting a week’s worth of food anyway. But my favorite thing when my husband does do that at home, like instead of saying what do you want for dinner, or he just comes up with something to make for dinner?

Megan
Oh, he would never. It’s at my house. It’s like if I’m not making dinner, because Sunday is like a lot of times on Tuesday, like that is a day I don’t necessarily cook because of the podcast. So it’s like my off day sometimes. And so he’s supposed to be responsible for coming up with dinner, but then he’ll do this thing where he like wanders, I’ll be relaxing. And he’ll do this thing where he wanders into the room. And he’s like, so what were you thinking for dinner? And I’ll be like, it’s not my responsibility today. It’s yours. I’m like, Okay, well, hmm. And then he’ll go, and I’ll see like what we have in the fridge or the freezer, and then I’ll come back and give me like something ridiculous as a suggestion. And I was to be like, I’m not cookie, go away. Figure it out. You’re a grown man. And I think that is part of it. Like we don’t want to be hassled all the time, like we already are doing enough. Yes. We just want you to pick up some of the slack.

Stephie
Yes, yeah. I appreciate when my husband does that. Or like when he sees like, oh, we’re really low on snacks for the baby. I’m going to run to the grocery store after I take her to physical therapy and get her snacks for like the next week. That’s extremely helpful.

Megan
Yeah, cuz they need all the food.

Stephie
This kid eat so much food. Like I swear on Sunday shade like 87 snacks and then still had dinner. I was like, I don’t know where you’re putting this phone.

Megan
Anyway, she has a really high metabolism.

Stephie
Yes, she is going to eat me broke by the time she’s a teenager.

Megan
they slow down. It’s okay. They eat a lot when they’re like toddlers usually. And then they and then they slow down a little, a little and then a little ramp up again.

Stephie
There will be there will be a wall.

Megan
Yeah, there’ll be a law like we had a law where they go The Olympic race would eat would be peanut butter sandwiches. So Oh gosh, like,

Stephie
now it’s just ramen, you know, whatever.

Megan
I mean, it’s it’s not great food, but it’s a lot of it. So a lot of Robin

What’s bringing us joy?

Stephie
Megan was bringing you joy this week.

Megan
And our impending trip. Hey, that was excited. Yay, dual joys. And then next week, I guess we’ll have to say something other than the trip we just had. But we are going on a road trip this weekend to North Carolina to see a lot of friends. I don’t know how many friends we’re gonna end up seeing. I feel like, I don’t really know so many people, many of them are

Stephie
on the podcast. So that’s Yeah,

Megan
um, I we don’t have enough time to see everyone without having like a party, which we are not doing. Because COVID Yeah, so yeah, it’s just it’s gonna be a whirlwind, but it’s gonna be fun. We’re going to eat a bunch of food. I’ve never been to North Carolina. So I’m excited for that, in general.

Stephie
I was born there a real long time since that happened. So I am guessing

Megan
you don’t remember it?

Stephie
I weirdly don’t remember. I mean, I’ve been to North Carolina since we moved away when I was like a year and a half. But I think I was like six or seven The last time we were down there. So it’s been a very long time since I’ve been to North Carolina.

Megan
Yeah, and, and we’re driving. So that’ll be interesting. Hopefully fun. Hopefully, we’ll kill each other. I have snacks.

Stephie
We have snacks. I’m I’m hoping that the leaves have started to turn like when we get to like Tennessee and stuff. Because the leaves have not turned here. And it’s very disappointing.

Megan
On behalf of in some places, it just depends on like, what kind of tree it is right now.

Stephie
It’s just like, but not they’re not as like, not as much as they normally are this time of year. So

Megan
I think it’s because it was so warm until very recently. So so true. Yeah, we’re gonna be driving through some mountainy areas. So love it. Yeah. I’m not I we’re talking about what time to leave. And you very optimistically said is six too early. And I was shocked that you would say that,

Stephie
well, only because we’re gonna lose an hour going east. And so

Megan
I know. You’d have to get up so

Stephie
I was trying to well out because I mean, to be honest, if we were flying, like the flights are usually at 6am. So like, while I was up early then anyway, so yeah, we’ll we’ll see what actually happens come Friday morning. And we’ll we’ll try to share on the podcast Instagram stories and keep you apprised of our, our journey on quest. So let you know how many cans of Pringles we eat along the way. We’re very, very into balanced nutrition. And so we have Pringles and chex mix and gummy bears.

Megan
Yes, and I bought some apple caramel cookies, because they looked really good at Target. So we’ll see, I’m sure I’ll probably end up buying more snacks, because I always buy lots of snacks for the car, even though I don’t actually need them. But also I kind of enjoy sometimes you do and also kind of enjoy buying the snacks at a gas station even though cost five times.

Stephie
Yes. There’s just like something about like popping into a gas station and grabbing a bottle of coke and a bag of cheese. It’s

Megan
Yeah, I don’t know. So it’s very strange.

Stephie
Yeah, no, that’s our that’s our collective joy. We’re gonna we’re gonna give ourselves a break this week and allow ourselves to have collective joy. But next week, we’re not allowed to say that it was our our trip as a whole, we have to come up with separate joys we can our joys could be something that happened on the trip, but it cannot be the trip as a whole. We’re setting the parameters here for you all to hear them so that we follow through.

Next week’s episode

Megan
So that we will make sure we select different ones next time. We’ll confer ahead of time. Next week is going to be the first in a new series we’re starting.

Stephie
Yeah, we’re going to talk about parenting in America we’re going to talk to all different types of parents about their experience of what it’s like to raise kids in this country. So in the meantime, leave us a review on Apple podcasts and listen to us on your favorite platform. You can also follow us on social media at IRS podcast, or send us an email at I’d rather stay in podcast@gmail.com. We’d love to hear from our listeners.

Megan
Bye

Transcribed by https://otter.ai