Hello! Welcome to episode 81 of I’d Rather Stay In. This week, we’re chatting all about the convergence of hustle culture and “girlboss” culture.

Quick links

• Article: Why having a ‘work family’ is actually hustle culture at its worst
• Article: Hustle Culture: Why is Everyone Working too Hard?
• Article: Hustle culture and toxic productivity are ruining your brain
• Article: When the ‘hustle’ isn’t enough
• The Dream podcast
• Financial Feminist episode: The Scandalous and Sketchy Truth Behind MLMs with Jane Marie
• Life After MLM podcast
• Roberta Blevins on TikTok

Episode transcript

Megan
Welcome to I’d rather stay in with your host Megan Myers and Stephie Predmore. This week we’re chatting about hustle culture, the term girlboss and its convergence with MLM culture. Stay tuned.

Stephie
Do you love listening to I’d rather stay in and want to support the podcast? Well, now you can visit our website or the link in our Instagram profile and click Buy me a coffee or visit buymeacoffee.com/IRSIpodcast. For the price of a cup of coffee, you can help us cover the costs of creating this podcast. There are no monthly memberships and you could support us at whatever level you’d like whenever you like, whether you buy us one coffee, many coffees or simply continue listening as always, we’re so grateful for your support.

Hello, hi. Stephie So I learned something today, Megan.

Megan
Do tell.

Stephie
So I learned that apparently there are parents who when they go to like label their kids shit for like, daycare and school and stuff. Apparently, they don’t just like go at it with their label maker and a sharpie and maybe some masking tape and call it a day. They like actually purchase like specific labels for this purpose, which I did not know existed.

Megan
Yes, there are fancy labels you can get made and I believe they iron on to your items.

Stephie
Yeah, I didn’t know that was a thing.

Megan
It’s a little extra. And I feel

Stephie
Yeah, I mean, I just for free. 99 cent Sharpie to the tags in my child’s clothes. Because that’s what Kathleen told me to do.

Megan
Yeah, we are also Sharpie people. Because why why bother? What kind of right?

Stephie
I mean, I guess like if I got some hand me downs that had already been Sharpie, then I guess maybe like having an iron on thing to put over? That would be good. Yeah,

Megan
I guess maybe if you plan to pass the clothes on to somebody else. And or maybe you’re like a person that does resale? Yeah, I guess. But I didn’t care. Either way. And also like, I think we had clothes that had, you know, their initials on or whatever on the tags. And I think maybe we cut them off when we donate them.

Stephie
Yeah, I just like the COVID tags. I just put her initials on on my Sharpie. And then the ones that didn’t have tags, it was just printed on, like, scrolled them on with the Sharpie. Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, she’s 18 months old, like, I don’t know, whatever. I I just my mind was a little bit blown today when I learned that. Apparently, this is like a real thing. Because all my friends are low key and just do like, take their usual label maker for like, you know, like cups and stuff, or they just took Sharpie to it or like whatever, or masking tape and just called it today.

Megan
First of all, I would generally describe myself as thrifty. And also I always describe myself as lazy. Therefore, the fact that I would have to then go through all the clothes and iron these labels onto their clothes. Just sounds like way too much work that I don’t want to do. And then do they come off? Like, are they removable? How do you get them off later when your kid is done?

Stephie
Yeah, I don’t. It’s there’s I have a lot of questions. Um, yeah, I the, I guess the ones that the ones that I saw or like learn about today, I guess they do also, like work with schools or whatever to do fundraising. So I guess if your school does that you can like buy through them, and then they get some of the money, which is nice, I guess. But it just seems like I don’t know. It just felt it felt like a thing to have to remember to order them and then put them on.

Megan
There just to let’s just be frank here. There are too many things to remember when it comes to being parent to begin with. Yeah, and it just seems like every time I turn around, there’s just something new that you’re supposed to, quote unquote be doing and it’s exhausting and I don’t want to do it. I don’t want to do it.

Stephie
I absolutely not not interested. Yeah, I am not.

Megan
I have a follow up to last week’s Olympics episode.

Stephie
Oh, please tell,

Megan
maximize it enjoyed the men’s skateboarding. I don’t remember exactly which skateboarding event it was. But they were showing it in primetime. We were watching it, and it was pretty cool. And the thing that I really enjoyed about the skateboarding is that they just were having a really good time. Uh, huh. I don’t know if you saw any of the skateboarders.

Stephie
But I kept missing the skateboarding. And I was really bummed because it looked baller,

Megan
they just like, a skateboard is different, because you get to do multiple runs. And if you like fall, it’s not like a big deal if you can do another good run later. So that’s kind of cool. But they just were having a blast. And like, even the guys that fell, they’re just like, whatever. It’s fine. I’ll do better next time. Like, whatever. It’s cool. I’m like playing to the crowd that you know, it’s just other skateboarders. And they’re all like, cheering each other on and stuff. It was awesome. Like, cool. The very next day, Max is like, I want to skateboard. I want to skateboard I want to be bothered me for like, days, every every day, you’d be like, I would really like a skateboard. And I was like, that’s nice. I know my children and they ask for things and that they’re interested in and they’re interested in it for like a week. And then nothing ever happens with it. Like Reese’s his guitar that he really wanted. And he played it for a very short amount of time and does not do anything with it now. So I kind of knew like, well, I don’t know about this. So I and then finally, a Saturday or Sunday, I don’t remember which day. But he asked me again. And I was like, Look, dude, like, I appreciate that you’re asking me. But just because you’re asking me does not mean it’s gonna happen. You just had a birthday, just got all these other things like, let’s, let’s maybe you know, think about it for longer than two days after seeing skateboarding for the first time really. So if anyone asked his father and Bob comes to me, and he goes, Max wants a skateboard. I said, Yes, he does. I know. I’m aware. Yeah. And so then they had to go to the sporting goods store to buy Max’s soccer stuff, his uniform and things that he needed. Sure. And they also came up with a skateboard. course they did.

Stephie
Yeah. Yes, dad. What at the time? Was he? Feeling he could feel like the time was ripe to bring it up again? Yeah,

Megan
yeah. Cuz he’s just like, just like he’s just a pushover. Whenever Max wants something just like, Oh, of course. Of course, we’ll do that. Why not? Oh, like, dude, you don’t even and then I was like, well, you need to get he needs pads and things. And he’s like, Oh, he’s like, here’s a knee pads. Like, I actually knee pads are the ones that the professionals do wear. So like,

Stephie
I just feel like maybe it would be a good idea

Unknown Speaker
should get.

Megan
But yeah, so that’s really the Olympics appreciation. Still going strong here.

Stephie
Has he used the skateboard.

Megan
He has been practicing in the driveway. We suggested that it’s a safe place to practice because it means to like, figure out how it works, basically. Yes. And then we will move on to some sort of larger pavement service

Stephie
to move on to something else. Yeah.

Megan
You know, not not the skateboard park. But yeah, we had one of those. I don’t know there might be one somewhere, but I’m not sure.

Stephie
Probably. Oh, my goodness. Well, bless him. Fall in conch is now going over

Megan
open. He does wear his helmet. So Good boy.

Stephie
One less thing to have to stress about. Right. So we’ve got we’ve got some things to say today.

Megan
When don’t wait to be honest. Well, yeah,

Stephie
this is true. We have some things to say about what we’re going to call girlboss Culture and hustle culture, which kind of go together, but are also like the there’s, we’ve kind of got a Venn diagram here and there is crossover. But there’s, we also have some different things to say about both.

Megan
Yeah, and it’s, it’s kind of sort of like a Venn diagram, but it also was sort of like a parent child situation. where like, I think also hustle culture like led to girl boss culture.

Stephie
Mm hmm. Yeah. I’ll agree with that way. So, okay, so what is your what’s your, I guess background? With hashtag girlboss? hustle culture?

Megan
My background? That’s like a weird.

Stephie
Well, like, what was your like, introduction to this like, concept of the like, hashtag girlboss? Um, Andorra, you have? Did you? Did you have a sense of any, any kind of hustle anything? Well, so I last say 10 years.

Megan
Okay. Well, I will say, like, I have a website, I run a website. And technically, there’ll be like the, quote, side hustle. And I feel like it wasn’t, wasn’t when when blogs got started. It wasn’t like a side hustle thing. It was just like something you did for fun. It was a hobbyist thing. It was a hobby, actual hobby. But then it became this thing where like, if you’re not working on it, every spare hour of your life, then like, you’re not going to make it and you’re not hustling hard enough. And that was a thing for me where it suddenly turned to the this thing, like not just blogging, but like literally any other thing you were interested in. If you wanted to, quote, make it, you had to spend all of your time on it. Yeah. And if you weren’t spending all of your time on it, you didn’t take it seriously enough, and things being fun. didn’t count anymore.

Stephie
Yes. Yeah. I, you know, it’s interesting, because like, I’m sitting here thinking about it. And, like, I mean, so I definitely think the concept of hustle culture has gotten worse, when the rise of social media and, you know, the ability to make money on the internet, and via blogs, and social media platforms, and like, all of these things. I, because I’m sitting here thinking about my childhood. And so first of all, when we were kids, our parents for the most part, they got a job and they stayed there. Like, there wasn’t like now if you stay in a job in the same company, your whole career? That’s really bizarre.

Megan
Yeah, I actually read something today where it was it said that the average person only stays at their job for four years now.

Stephie
Yeah. And so that’s, that’s, that’s total, I find that just to be completely. I don’t, I don’t want to say bananas because I’ve done that. But like when you compare it to the fact that my dad was at his job at Caterpillar for like, 30 years. Like, no one does that anymore. Very few people do that anymore. And also, like, my mom stayed home. And she didn’t she substitute taught during the school year, but she didn’t really she wasn’t like doing any, like side hustles right, because that wasn’t so much a thing, although we’ll talk a little bit in a bit about about that, um, and then, and my dad, he would be home by 530 every night for dinner, like he would go in a little bit early, specifically, so he could be home early for dinner every night. But it was extremely rare for my dad to miss dinner because of work. Very, very rare that he would like be like, Hey, I’m stuck at the office. I’m not going to make it home. Because that was where he put his priority. He put his priority in coming home and having dinner with us every night. And so the idea for me growing up that there were people who would just like work all the time and like, not be home for dinner or not be home for their kids like activities. Like for me it was concerts and plays and stuff but for their kids sporting events like any of that kind of even beginning of like hustle culture was completely foreign to me. And so it’s really only been as an adult that I’ve even been aware of this idea of, of hustle, this this, this puzzle culture even beyond what we think of now.

Megan
Yeah, and that, like, you have to prove that you’re working really hard because you need to get promoted. get ahead,

Stephie
right, all of those things,

Megan
but you only can prove that by working 60 hours a week, and bringing your work home with you from the office with you. And nowadays, it translates to always having your your work email answerable, responding to slack messages on the weekend or after hours. Right. And I think it’s harder now because of not just social media, but the fact that we carry computers in our pockets. Yeah. And you can’t really step away from that you don’t really have an excuse anymore, that you’re not available. Because even if you are off with your family, doing something fun, or taking care of your parents, or just going for a walk, you literally have your method of communication, and sometimes your method of work in your pocket.

Stephie
Yes. It really Yes. And you have you really have to be, you really have to kind of make a decision. And I think my end, like to go back to my dad, like, I think he definitely made a decision that he was going to work really hard when he was in the office. And he was going to do a great job at what he was doing. But he wasn’t interested in like climbing the ladder as fast as he could, if it meant that he was sacrificing his family in the process. And I think like he and I’m sure my mom, like made that decision that that was where his priority was going to be. And I think that to your point, like, if that is where your priority is going to lie, then I think you do have to work harder now than maybe ever to keep that boundary up.

Megan
Yeah, or I think, you know, at least be lucky enough to work for a company where you are allowed to have that boundary where that boundary is respected. And I think that is one of the reasons why girlboss culture has come into play so heavily. I think maybe it’s it’s, it’s hard to say if it’s dying down lately, because it’s popping up in other ways. But the idea of girlboss culture kind of comes from the fact that, oh, you can work for yourself, you can set your own hours, you just doing what you love, you’re not working for the man. And like, obviously, that’s super appealing to nearly almost everyone, right? Like, who wouldn’t want to sleep late, work three hours a day, and then still make money, of course,

Stephie
work from your phone for two hours. Make a full time income. Okay, before we switch over to that, though, I’m in this like hustle culture, what because you mentioned you mentioned, if you’re lucky enough to work for company that respects those boundaries. And you found a really interesting article from Fast Company, we will link to it in the show notes. And it’s titled why having a quote, work family is actually hustle culture at its worst. And it’s, it’s really interesting, and it makes some really, really great points.

Megan
I think one of the reasons why I find this article is so interesting is I like you and I used to work together. We used to work at the same company. Neither one of us works there anymore. But we were kind of like, I don’t know, I guess we would be sort of like work spouses or whatever, based on these weird terms that they have even though right. I think for the most part those are like people in offices as opposed to remote companies like you did. But the difference for a lot for most people is that like you don’t when you leave your job like those people are gone. Right? You don’t stay friends with those people necessarily. If you stay friends with people that you used to work with. It’s usually not like your boss or people that you know how hierarchy with there might be other you know, it’s your, it’s your people in the trenches with you, right? Um, but it’s definitely a thing about, like, they emphasize the family situation because like, they want you to feel like you’re part of something, but that way they can like, make you feel bad for not like backing up your family when they need you to answer emails on the weekend. Right, like not supporting your family if you’re not willing to not take days off. Right? You have to hustle extra hard because it’s your family.

Stephie
Right? Yeah, it’s a very it can be used very few laid to flee. Wow, that

Megan
was manipulative. Lee,

Stephie
thank you have. That’s where my brain is firing today, guys. Yeah, it can be used to manipulate you. That’s just how we’re going to say at this time to into doing more than what you would probably normally be doing. And again, like I should, I do want to say like, the caveat being like, obviously, in certain jobs in certain industries, there are probably times of the year where you’re going to be like working a little bit more or a little bit harder than other times, like every industry has its busy season. We’re not talking about like your normal busy season, we’re talking about, we’re not talking about working hard during the day at your job, that is your job description. That is what you are paid to do. We’re talking about when an employer or a manager uses and many of you don’t even realize that this is what they’re doing. But they use this, like, oh, we’re all a big work family like thing to guilt you into doing something above your paygrade working outside of normal hours, like staying in the office really late, like doing things that they really should be paying you for without paying you for them.

Megan
Yes, yeah. Especially because so many of these jobs now, especially as you get older and further in your career, obviously they’re salaried. So there is even more of an excuse, just be like, Well, you know, your job’s not done. Even if you, you know, worked really hard on it during the day. It’s like, Well, you know, it’s, it’s five o’clock, but you’re not done with this product. So guess you’re gonna stay until it’s done. Right? It is the worst feeling ever, basically to like work all day, really hard on something or all week really hard on something that you’re trying to get done. And then everyone else leaves. And you’re just like, yep, still still working on it? Because it’s not done. Right. And I would, I’ve been conditioned to feel worse about it not being done, than all of the good that I have done prior to this moment.

Stephie
Right. And the Fast Company article that we read, the end of it talks about how, like the antidote for this like is for leaders to not just say how much they care for their teams, like, Oh, I care of you so much. We’re all a family, but to actually show them with actions, like, show them by respecting their personal boundaries, like letting them have a life outside of the office, pay them what they’re worth, like. That is how you actually show your team and your employees, what they mean to you and that you value them. Not I don’t I have reached a point in my career where I really don’t give a shit what you say. I give a shit what you do. And I, I really like I do not need and this is just me personally in part, some of it is mine. Some of it is my personality, and some of it is sort of a learned behavior at this point. I really don’t need you to be like oh my gosh, Stephie you’re just so great. Oh my gosh, savvy. We just love you. Like I want you to show me I want you to show me by giving me a raise or giving me extra vacation time. Or like not bothering me on the weekends. That’s how I want to see that you care about me and your and see your gratitude for the work that I’m doing.

Megan
Yeah, like something that would be really great would be like you’ve you know, you really killed this project. You’ve been working really hard lately. Why don’t you take next Friday off,

Stephie
right? Like,

Megan
because for like part of the other problem. hustle culture is that even with companies that have unlimited vacation days, we’re conditioned to not take vacation? Yes. Because we just are like, we are so busy. And we feel like we’re needed all the time. So you feel guilty for taking vacation, and then you end up never taking vacation. And Surprise, surprise, you’re overworked and stressed.

Stephie
Yeah, you burn out you Brown. So I had I had this conversation with a direct report like today, like, going out there, she has a vacation coming up. And I was like, Okay, what are we not going to do on vacation next week, get online at all. If I see you online, I’m going to kick you off, go have your vacation time, you know, cuz like, I appreciate her. And I really want her to have time to rest and regroup and come back rejuvenated and not come back, like a ball of stress. Because like, you’re, we’ve all done it. We’ve all done it where we’re like taking vacation. And then we just like take a peek at our work email, or we take a peek at slack or we take a peek at the DMS or whatever. And then either we fall down the rabbit hole, and we have not actually taken vacation or we like see it and then it just like sits in the back of our mind. And then we get a little bit stressed. And it just kind of ruins the vacation.

Megan
Yeah, it does. And then also, aside from that, I think part of the issue with not being able to turn itself off is that I think a lot of problems and work, you know, if you’re having I don’t mean like you know, interpersonal problems or anything like that, I mean, project problems or trying You know, you’re trying to solve a thing that you need to get done at work and need to find the best option for it. Or you need to brainstorm things, if you are able to actually step away from work and like really unplug that actually can help you solve those problems.

Stephie
Yeah, you’re it really can, because your brain is like, you just come back and you’re rejuvenated and you’re firing on all cylinders. And you’re able to look at it with fresh eyes, I do this all I have all the time on Fridays, in particular, cut to the end of the week, and I’ll get to Friday afternoon. And I will just realize, I just didn’t make a mistake after mistake, or I open up a document to work on it. And I just stare at it at all, like write a sentence and then I’ll erase the sentence or write it again. And I’ll just repeat that as I finally I’m like, No, you have reached your point of productivity for the week. And at this point, anything that you do is actively going to take away from the good work that you did earlier. You need to shut everything down and come back fresh on Monday. And invariably I come back fresh on my I take a weekend away from work. I come back Monday morning, I open up the thing that I was struggling with on Friday, and I can have it done in like half an hour. Because my mind is fresh and I put it away.

Megan
Yeah, I think I kind of wonder how much of this is just related to being American as well were just huge emphasis on always being productive and always be busy. like everyone’s default response to how you’re doing is I’m super busy. Like guys, you don’t have to be busy all the time. Just it’s cool. If you just sit and watch Netflix, just admit it, you sit and watch Netflix, no one is gonna look down and you for that. We need to decompress. We need to not always be super busy. It’s not there’s there’s nothing about it. There’s you know, certain aspects of portions of your life that, you know, maybe you need to work harder than other times, maybe you truly need to be hustling. But it should not be something that is a long term thing.

Stephie
Right. So, okay, so there’s hustle. So there’s there’s hustle culture in work in our normal workplaces. And then as you mentioned, there are side hustles. And, you know, you talked about that we have both had the experience of having something that started out very much as a hobby turned into a side hustle. And suddenly the fun is sucked out of it. And I mean, I do and I see this. And you know, I think as bloggers we see this a lot we see people come in and start blogs specifically to make money and specifically as like an income stream instead of it just like naturally turning into that. And it is fascinating because that is so much the opposite of how ARB is since it started, like we both started our businesses completely by accident. So I do find it so interesting to see people come into, like, what could what could very well be a hobby, and immediately jump into it as a side hustle. And I find I, I mean, I think there’s a number of things to that. I think there is the like, everybody’s got a side hustle kind of hustle culture. And it’s all around us. And we’re like, oh, what are you doing? Don’t you want to just like, do your thing and like, be your own boss kind of thing. Like everyone wants to quit their nine to five. And I was going somewhere else with that, and I forgot.

Megan
Especially kind of funny because my husband and I were talking about this today, not about side hustles. But we were just talking in general about my side hustle and how mine is like passive income for the most part. So I there’s not a lot that I necessarily have to do in order to still get an income for it. And so we were talking about how, you know, how many ever years down the line where we could just subsist on that income, and he could just retire. And then he was like, Yeah, but I think I would still get another job. And he does not have a side hustle or anything like that. But he just don’t doesn’t think he could not work.

Stephie
I was talking about this with a co worker today, actually. Because so and I think for me, I think it’s a genetic problem. So on my mom’s side, my her grandfather, her dad and grandfather, my grandfather and great grandfather owned a grain elevator. And if you don’t live in the Midwest, and you don’t know what a grain elevator is, you’re just gonna have to look it up. And when my great grandfather was 90 years old, nine, zero, they caught him climbing the grain elevator. And my grandpa had to be like, Dad, I’m forbidding you from doing this anymore. I’m making you retire. Like I’m literally forcing you into retirement because you’re 90 years old. And you should not be climbing a grain elevator that’s really dangerous at your age. And my grandmother, my mom’s mom, like, she only recently stopped working full time. She’s in her 80s. And grip on maps. If you’re listening, I’m sorry to out you. And like, and she’s still she’ll be like, you can call me anytime I’m just bored. Because she was bored. So I actually do think I will probably be one of those people that I don’t know that I’ll ever just like fully retire and just like sit around and like, putter about doing whatever fully retired people do because I literally don’t know what they do. Right? Because they’re old, so they don’t sleep in like I don’t know, I’m very it’s very confusing to me. The concept of just being fully retired is very confusing to me. Because what do you do? What do you do with your whole day? Do you just put around in your garden? Like, do you go golfing? Like, I don’t really want to go golfing? like is that a requirement? I don’t really know. So I will probably be that person that like, if I’m not doing some sort of just like part time job. But like at very least, we’ll just be working on my hobbies all the time, just at least having a project. But I don’t know if that’s me and my personality type. I don’t know if it’s because I’m just like super Midwestern. Like, I don’t really know what that is.

Megan
I will just say that. So I previously had like, I was working like six gigs. A few years ago. And now I guess I just have to just have my website and my editing job. Um, which seems normal to me, like just having to seems normal. And I will say that you have like

Stephie
three or four. I am sitting here like, yeah.

Megan
And I was once your age, and honestly, like, you’re just gonna get tired.

Stephie
Well, I’m already tired. Well,

Megan
you won’t give up some of those, especially as your daughter gets older, and she has more things that you will have to worry about and do like you’re just gonna get tired.

Stephie
Yes, well, it’s funny because so Alex’s best friend is he is one of those people that always has multiple jobs. He just like can’t sit still. He and I are super, super similar. And he can’t sit still. And every time Alex talks to Parker, he’ll be like, Oh yeah, Parker’s got a job doing data data. And I’m always like, we always joke cuz I’m like, of course he does. And then I started working at a friend’s restaurant a couple Saturdays a month. And as I was getting ready for my first shift at the restaurant, I looked in the mirror, and I said, My God, you are the female Parker. Like I am, I mean, working at the restaurant is mostly a favor to our friend, because they’re super short staffed, and like, just really need the staff. And so at some point, hopefully, they will not be short, so short staffed anymore. And I’ll let somebody who really needs that, like full time income, take over my shifts, and I’ll just sort of phase out. But yeah, I definitely was like, oh, I’ve got my full time job. I have freelance stuff. I do. I guess, technically, I have my blog, even though I just sort of ignore it. And it does bring in some like passive income. I do the adoption, advising and Oh, fuck, no, I’m waiting tables. Like, haha, but I don’t. It’s so it is interesting, though, because it’s not necessarily out of like, I’ve got a hustle.

Megan
Right? It’s just me that it’s just something I do. Yeah, I think for me, I think for me, it started that way. It was just, I started just kind of collecting them like Pokemon cards. It was like, I just really enjoy all the things that I’m doing. And someone offers me another thing that sounds like fun. So I just say yes, and do it.

Stephie
I have to actively I, with my hobbies, like my like, where I like my crocheting and my cross stitching, like, I’ll post about a project or something. And invariably, I’ll get Instagram DMS that are like, Oh my gosh, you should sell those. And I have to, like, actively make myself say like, No, do not do that. Don’t absolutely don’t do that. Because you don’t need one. You don’t need another thing. And you just need something that’s literally just for fun. That’s just for funsies all it is is for shits and giggles, I will give I will make things I will give them to people but like, do not take on the conviction. Don’t do it. Don’t say just say no. Say No.

Megan
Don’t do but what if but when it really? What if you really? Like those essential oils?

Stephie
Okay, so we’re going to talk we’re gonna talk about it. Okay, so here’s where we really get into the problem with hashtag girl boss culture.

Megan
Yeah, so I think so it was her saying a lot of this comes from you know, you can be your own boss, you work for yourself, you set your own hours, the quote unquote, average person makes however much money even though they don’t, but it’s fine. Yeah, and so there’s all of these companies out there that are evil. I don’t know if they’re all evil, okay, it’s like, but they prey on people, they prey on what people want, which is, you know, setting your own hours working for yourself flexibility, a community. You know, it’s a built in community and everyone’s very supportive of each other. And it’s just, I feel like it’s kind of gotten out of control. And I would, I will also also preface this whole conversation with the fact that I was previously a Beachbody coach.

Stephie
She was part of it.

Megan
I was part of it. But I do really love their program. Senate still, so Okay, I’ll just go with alsco who the whole story. So my friend started doing it. She like, you know, I was promoting the workouts or whatever. And I was like, I, you know, I like need to exercise and do fit, blah, blah, blah. So I started doing them. Obviously, you have to sign up and pay for them to get the programs but I really liked the programs, but then they’re like, well, if you sign up as a coach, then you’ll get all these other things and blah, you can make all this money and all this nonsense. Um, and it was like not expensive to do, basically. So it was not like a Lula row like 1000s of dollar buy in situation. So I just kind of did it but also, once I was in it, like the tactics that you’re supposed to use to sell this stuff to people That’s like the same across all of these companies where you’re just supposed to reach out to like, every single person, you know? Yes. Do you supposed to dm them slide into your DMS and do the class like, like, Hey, girl. I know we haven’t talked in a while. But you seem really down and depressed lately. Have you thought about joining this community? Full of really great boss babes like yourself? And, like, right. And that was that part of it was so disgusting to me that I just didn’t like I didn’t really, maybe a few months ago, I was just like, no, this is gross, because I would want it if I wanted to do what I want to do on my terms and just be like a normal human. And that’s not possible in these

Stephie
sessions. So yeah, so let’s talk about that. So I have fallen down the rabbit hole of anti MLM like podcasts. Um, and so I my exposure to mlms. Like, my mom had a couple of really, really close friends when I was growing up who sold Longaberger baskets. What now, Longaberger baskets. Okay, in their baskets, they’re very expensive baskets,

Megan
like woven baskets, or like baskets full of things,

Stephie
no like woven baskets. They have small baskets. They have big baskets. They have baskets to hold your toilet paper, they have baskets to hold your napkins. They have baskets to hold your kids toys, they have baskets with lids, they have baskets that go in drawers, they have basket liners, they have baskets, lots and lots and lots. And two of my mom’s best friends when I was growing up, sold Longaberger baskets. And my mom like to be sweet. And to be a supportive friend like had like a party, maybe to parties. Um, but like, so I was I was familiar with this, like the party, like you have the party and everybody comes over and you you have the snacks and you have the drinks and they talk about the products and then you order from the catalog like blah, blah, blah. Um, so like, it’s not like mlms are new like this is they’ve been around for a very long time. And I actually So recently I took a road trip and I listened. I like binge listened to the dream podcast. I will link to it in our show notes. It is excellent. And the first the whole first season specifically talks about MLM, so it’s like eight or 10 episodes maybe. And they actually talk about like, the history of MLM, like the very first MLM, like, how they got started. It’s really, really fascinating. And then they talk, they actually have one of their like, researchers join an MLM to see if, like all of the income claims and like the claims that they’re making, like if she could do it, and it is it is super, super interesting. I highly recommend listening to it. But yeah, like the big thing that and I’ve also been so I we also listened to Megan and I both listened to the financial feminist podcast and the first episode of that podcast is about MLM I actually think it might actually think the guest on that episode might be the gal that does the dream. If I’m remembering correctly, and then like also on Tick Tock fell into the anti MLM corner of Tick tock, and I found Roberta Blevins, her Tick Tock handle is Berta like whoa. And she has a podcast called life after MLM. So she was a LuLaRoe consultant and got out and she was actually part of the class action lawsuit in Washington State against LuLaRoe. And her whole podcast is basically like people who have gotten out of mlms like telling their story because she wants to break the stigma of like, Oh, I just didn’t succeed because I’m a bad salesperson. Like she wants to reiterate the fact that these companies are set up for you to not succeed, like they’re set up for you to fail. Because the people at the top benefit by more and more people coming in at the bottom but not really climbing that ladder. And yes, that and that like that’s always that’s always been the biggest like, question mark over my head. I feel like I feel like a sim Like what? Like their MLM Side gigs or whatever? Yeah. And they’re like, Oh, it’s so great that it didn’t die. It’s just your small business owner and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the big like sim question mark over my head, like there’s, well, there’s really two of them. The first is like, but you don’t really own that business.

Megan
Right? You don’t,

Stephie
because you’re, you’re being told you’re a business owner, but you’re actually an employee. So which are you because you don’t, but you’re

Megan
also not an employee, either, because you don’t get employee benefits,

Stephie
right? You’re like a contractor. It’s very, like your, your, your, you’re a, I don’t want to say you’re a nonentity. That’s not very nice. But like you, you’re just, here this weird. You’re this weird in between, because you don’t own your own business. Like if something like you are able to make your own, like real business decisions. Yeah, you can decide how much you work or whatever. But you’re not like Megan and I own our own businesses, we have LLCs in our names. We, if our if we decide to dissolve our LLC is like, that’s where they’ll we’re the only ones that are answer to that, like, we have friends who own like brick and mortar businesses, they decide as the owners of those businesses, what products they’re going to carry, what their hours of business are going to be, like, they they make the decisions that actually run that business. They have employees, some of them, some of them don’t. But they’re just those people come to work, they do their work, and they leave. There’s not this. The other thing that’s like, the big question mark over my head, is this constant having to recruit other people, like in a normal job, you aren’t constantly having to like recruit people to be on your team. Like if you own your own business, you hire people as employees. But you’re not constantly like recruiting people. And that’s the whole part of your commission structure.

Megan
Right? Well, the whole point of all those companies is growth, right? Like they want to grow, they want to get into more people’s homes, you Whatever it is, they’re selling, if it’s, you know, makeup, or clothes or basket, that the basket company is no longer in business. But I think there’s another basket ish company to have swept in and taken its place

Stephie
would not be surprised they were very popular, at least in Indiana in the 90s.

Megan
I mean, who doesn’t love Homer organization? So it’s, you’re supposed to bring more people on. And that way, that’s how the company grows. They don’t want people to know that, for instance, a lot of these companies, you can just go to the website and buy stuff, right? Like, you don’t have to go through a distributor and a person who has like 16 people ahead of them, right. But you’re also like made to feel guilty, because you’re like, Oh, of course, I want to support my best friend, who is trying, she’s just trying to make money to half the time support her for children. Or like, help her get out of a horrible corporate job structure, like a course you want to support the people that you really like. So that’s how a lot of people get sucked in.

Stephie
Yeah. And they talk about this on the job. Well, they talk about this on all the podcasts that I’ve listened to, is that what they really do is they they prey on the most vulnerable people. By which I mean, they find the people who don’t necessarily have or know that they have other options. Moms with kids at home single moms, like people who maybe don’t have a college education. And don’t think that there’s you know, think that there’s a limit to like, what like corporate jobs they can get, like there’s just lots of different vulnerable populations that these companies specifically go after. And they make huge promises and the big thing that they talk about, in a lot of the stuff that I’ve been listening to is that like, it’s something like 95% of people In these in MLM, either they like lose money. It’s some ridiculous stat like that, Oh Ha, I’d have to look up what the exact stat is. But it’s in the 90%, like the high 92% of people lose money.

Megan
Yeah, either usually it’s either, it’s, it’s pretty high, I can’t remember exact percentage either, but it’s either that they lose money, or they definitely don’t make any money, or they make like less than $100.

Stephie
Yeah, because so many of these companies, like some of the companies, if you are a distributor, or whatever, distributor consultant, they have like different different terms, like some of them, you don’t have to purchase the products and like have physical product in your home. Like, you can just direct people to the company website, and they can order it or whatever. But like, for example, when Lula row was big, those people had to purchase the product from Lula row. And then people purchase the product from that consultant. And then they had to be the ones to like, ship it out. Right then they had to spend money on the on like the the racks to store the clothes and or display them if they’re going to like parties or whatever, are making a boutique in their home. And they had to spend the money on the envelopes, and the shipping labels and like all this stuff. And on top of it, they had to buy all of the inventory that people may or may not buy from you.

Megan
Right. And even if you are not, if it’s not a situation where like you have to ship out the product yourself, they all have a personal quota. So even if you don’t have to send anything to anyone, you have to buy something yourself that month. So it might you’re gonna have to you know, you have to get I think for you know, all the essential oil companies, you know, you’re supposed to buy all the new products, you’re supposed to buy samples that you then give out to people that you’re trying to get sales from, or so you can host parties. what’s the what’s the kitchen one I ever told this fake, Pampered Chef, like you have to buy, pamper, you have to buy the Pampered Chef products to be able to have a Pampered Chef party. Right? So they order from the catalog. That’s not cheap. Right? So they get you either way.

Stephie
Yes. Yeah. So I just like I always, I just feel like in this day and age, and I definitely think that I definitely think that there was a time when working out of the home was much harder than it is now. Like there were a lot fewer opportunities to work outside the home. And so I actually can almost see the allure of these companies more from maybe like when we were growing up, like when I was a kid, and it was the 90s. And the internet really hadn’t taken off that much. And being able to be a mom and work from home was much, much harder. It is not. There are lots of different ways that you can work from home now. And so I have a really hard time and granted like I am coming at this from a I work my corporate job perspective. I have freelance gig freelance writing gigs perspective, like, you can hate on me all you want. But I have a really hard time with like, I just feel like there are so many different opportunities to get jobs working from home via the internet on a part time or full time basis making, like real money, like a real salary or a real hourly rate, that I just have a really hard time with the like, Oh, this is just my best business opportunity. thing.

Megan
Right. But I do think even though it is much easier these days to get a job working from home, I think there’s still like the level of barrier to entry that people have. Yeah, because they might not think they have the skills First of all, which I think is the the main thing, but they also might not have the connections in order to you know, know about those jobs, or even if, like they might, I don’t know, I don’t know where I was going with that. But

Stephie
no, I think that I think you’re right. I think you’re right. It is definitely I think you’re absolutely right.

Megan
And I do think especially if it is someone that you’re friends with, and they’re like, Hey, you know, I’ve been making money doing this job. It’s you know, Super easy. All you have to do is like sell this stuff, but it sells itself because it’s so amazing, which is like always what’s in the pitch? Like if your friend is telling you how great it is, like, wouldn’t you? Like why wouldn’t you be like, Oh, of course, like, that sounds awesome. Why? Of course, I’ll do that. Like, I would love to have a job that my friend has. She seems super happy. And she says she’s making money. Right? It seems like he is you’re going into with a huge trust factor.

Stephie
Right. Do you think that most of the people that are pulling other people in into their downline? Do you think that most of them are are

Unknown Speaker
purple?

Megan
I’m trying to work like entrapment team.

Stephie
Yes. Yeah. Like do you think most of them really believe that? What they’re doing like they are making a good amount of money. And they just like, really believe it’s a really good opportunity? Or do you think most of them are like saying that so they can get the other people underneath them so that then they can get promoted?

Megan
I don’t know. Because I always wonder that. So it’s interesting, because when I was doing Beachbody, they had the lead of our team or whatever was like high up. So she like, was making a lot of money. Yeah, I guess. So she was like, clearly, she was very into the brand. She’s very behind. I think she’s still is like super into it. But it also kind of felt like she just like she wanted us to do well. But she wanted us to do well, because she would then make more money if obviously we got people in right, you know. But the she was interested, it’s interesting to me because she had this woman underneath her, I guess. I don’t know if she was underneath, or Yeah, she was underneath her. But I don’t know those structures are like, jacked up and really hard to understand, like, where people are relation to you, if it’s not a straight line. But she quit last year or something like that, but I still follow her on Instagram. And she is now like the same person like like Berta, who is like, you know, this is really toxic environments. Like, it’s not thing people should be doing. And so I feel like she like she regrets what she did. Yeah, she regrets all the things that she put on people to like, make them want to do the things

Stephie
that she the hustle

Megan
and like, you know, you’re going to cold message these people you haven’t talked to since junior high and it’ll be fine. You’re just reconnecting it’s part of your network, because you’re supposed to reach out to 25 people a day. All of these things like it’s it’s like manipulation. Yeah, in a lot of ways. But I do. I don’t know how it is for some of these other ones because I feel especially with like the essential oil, people that are super into the essential oils. You and I both know, essential oil people and some of them are super into it. And some of them that are just kind of like, Oh, I do this on the side.

Stephie
Yeah, I think some of them do. Like, we know some folks that I think do it on the side, mostly so that they get more of a discount on whatever they were gonna buy or even a buy. Yeah.

Megan
Which is another way they get people in, right, cuz you’re just gonna get a discount. But I do know people who are just like, they’re so into it. They’re in there. They’re crazy into the oils, and they’re anti, like anything that they deem as like, you know, not clean, which I know a friend holiday is like a pet peeve against the beauty industry. And so it’s weird to see that aspect of it, that they’re just like so. So into it where you know, simmering in the background, there’s like all this scandal and weirdness happening in these companies. And you’re just like, Girl, do you even know? Do you even know? Like, what kind of company that you’re promoting? Right? Are you making money? Because,

like, what? I don’t know, it’s just, it’s also interesting because a lot of the times when those people start doing their girl bossing is that they become they become the girl boss. Yeah. And they lose all the other parts of themselves. Yes. They no longer talk about anything else. They only talk about their girl boss business opportunities.

Stephie
Yeah. Hey, hi, john. Hey, girl. Hey, girl. Hey. Hey,

Megan
or they’ll do it. The thing that I hate most is when they do it in a sneaky way. So they’ll like, you know, either they’ll do it in dm or they like compliment you, or they like work up to it. So like so they won’t just pitch you outright, they’ll like message you over a couple of weeks. Yes. And then they’ll be like, oh, by the way, I’m doing this thing, or by the way, you said that you’ve been extra tired lately?

Stephie
Right? I’ve got an oil for that. And then you feel like bamboozled.

Megan
Right? Or they’ll do it even worse, where they’ll be like, Oh, I did this thing. And it was amazing. And they will like give sort of details on what I hate that I write but they won’t. Oh, but they won’t like say what it is at all. And I’m like, Oh, that sounds like really really nice. Another like, Oh, wow. I let me tell you what I did.

Stephie
I guess I fucking hate that. More like I would straight up. I would rather some bitchy girl who bullied me in high school and middle school, I would rather her slide into my DMS then see these fucking posts like, I’m just I’m so I’m so annoyed by this. I’m just gonna swear a lot for a second. I see these fucking posts on Facebook or Instagram or wherever, where they’re like, Oh my god, I’m just like a part of this wonderful. I just this thing has like, changed my life. And like, if you want to be a part of this opportunity, like message me. I never thought I would find such a great community. If you want to know more about it, message me. And then like people it like people will comment and be like, oh, what, what? What is it? And they’ll be like, Oh, I’m gonna send you a DM and I’m like, if you can’t fucking say it. What? What? What the fuck is this? What kind of tactic is this? Like, I genuinely don’t understand it. Like if you are going to be so like, Why are you being so secretive about it? Like if you are being so secretive about it for like a reason, then maybe you should be rethinking what you’re doing.

Megan
I think they’re trying to build up like a FOMO situation where you know, you’re, they’d have a lot of a lot of these companies have yearly retreats, where it’s always on Yeah, some ridiculous resort that’s all inclusive, because they can be super, super cheap. And not actually that great

Stephie
to perform.

Megan
My son would probably love Pitbull. Let’s just be honest with that one right there.

Stephie
Um, well, boy, do I have a business opportunity for him?

Megan
Are you interested in stretchy pants? But they’ll do like do something for the beach and be like, oh, I’ve been reconnecting with these amazing women. They’re all such amazing bosses. And they’re really taking control of their lives and just like, Oh, that sounds amazing. Like, I followed this lady who she like, went to this amazing. She went to she went on a retreat. She went on this like farm tour. And there was like all this wonderful outdoors in nature things and I was like, that sounds awesome. And then she’s like, oh, wow, let me tell you. It was I’m like, oh, god dammit.

Stephie
Like, I just, I don’t know. It just annoys it just annoys me. It annoys me. I don’t like the like cagey. I’m not going to tell you what it is like what the company is like? I don’t, again, it’s just my personality. Maybe there are people that really go for that crap. I hate it. It feels so that to me is the scariest possible thing that you could do. That, to me is even scarier than the sliding into the DMS of the people that you haven’t talked to in a decade and that you like bullied in high school. Yeah, I find it so disgusting. And so skeevy like, just be straightforward about what the company is what you’re doing. If If you cannot drum up the interest by being like genuine and straightforward and honest about what you’re doing, then maybe you should not be doing it.

Megan
How do we feel? I know how we feel. I’m just kind of fleeting. It’s up here. I’m playing devil’s advocate. Right, right. So that’s gross. sliding your DMS is gross. faking what you’re talking about as well not faking but you know, being purposefully leaving out details is gross. But how do we feel about these actual stores, storefronts, brick and mortar stores. That are actually fronts for MLS. This is

Stephie
I find it weird.

Megan
It is super weird. So we were having this conversation a couple of months ago, I guess we were both listening to some episodes would be there in five she was covering Rachel Hollis and everything related to that and there was she had multiple episodes, but some of the episodes covered MLM since she started mentioning. Herbalife juice cafes. And I had never heard of those before. And I was flabbergasted that this was a thing. And then one opened up in our town.

Stephie
We were really disappointed because we thought it was gonna be like an actual juice place.

Megan
I really did. I was really hopeful I really wanted to. But then because I had we had, I had just listened to this podcast, I was like, you know, that’s Hmm. And so I was researching the company. And I was looking at her Instagram and and she had all these hashtags. And so I, I clicked on one that was really suspect to me, and I it, what pulled up was all these other MLM juice bars, and I was like, oh, Frick.

Stephie
Darren,

Megan
and I don’t know. So apparently, there’s multiple different kinds, where some of them, you get a quote, membership to the juice bar, which you get by buying juice. And then like that count, yeah, I guess and then that counts as like being underneath them in the structure somehow, because you now have like a card with your name on it and like add like a punch card. But it’s like, your membership card that you get by buying, you know, you only have to buy like two juices or something like that. I don’t know if this place is like that, because I will literally never go there. But the thing is that they don’t they’re not honest, necessarily about what they’re selling. I felt really annoyed by the whole situation because either downtown Alliance is promoting them. There’s other businesses downtown being you know, promoting it because they want people to come downtown and spend their money right. But it doesn’t say anywhere on her profile. Or on her Facebook page that they sell Herbalife products and tell people ask and then she will answer if they ask, but she doesn’t say if they don’t ask

Stephie
you. Yeah, I don’t like that.

Megan
No, it’s Carlos. I want to know, if you’re like if you’re, if I’m eating a protein shake from a juice bar, I want to know what you’re putting in it.

Stephie
Yes.

Megan
And I don’t want the answer to be something that I don’t like, or company that I don’t agree with. Same thing, like anything else that I buy. I do agree with what’s going on here.

Stephie
Right? I am

Megan
no assigning the situation.

Stephie
Yeah. Like I want to, I want to be able to say like, oh, what protein are you putting in there? And like know what it is or whatever? Like? No, I just to me, it’s just cuz it just keeps circling back to like, if you feel like you have to be cagey about what you’re selling and like not be upfront about what you’re selling. I feel like that should be a red flag to you.

Megan
Well, it’s a proprietary blend of multiple nutrients and vitamins.

Stephie
And these are the same people that refuse to get the COVID vaccine. Sorry, I have absolutely no patience for that nonsense these days. Like whatever patients I might have had for it before of like, at least like entertaining your ramblings and being polite. I it’s gone. It’s absolute 2020 and 2021 have absolutely taken my last of my fucks and I cannot stand for that shit anymore. Yeah, I can’t go get your vaccine. Stop saying that you won’t get the vaccine because it’s not FDA approved yet. But you’re selling Herbalife to people. Or you’re relying on essential oils, which spoiler alert are also not FDA approved.

Megan
But there’s such a good cure for everything, which I always want to say whenever they go on and on about how they have some problem and they’re treating it with like six different oils and like just take an Advil and you’ll be fine. But also, if you’ve been treating your entire life with these oils, why are you feeling bad in the first place? these oils supposed to be helping me have the most amazing life forever. I just gotta say, like, I want to point that out,

Stephie
then again, like, refer back to our hippie episode. There are plenty of hip, there’s plenty of hippie shit that we do, like. I like, absolutely. I am a big fan of elderberry. Like I really do. For me, I think that it helps like, combat some symptoms of like cold and sniffling, sniffly nose, and like, that kind of stuff. But also, I’m not going to take it and then refuse to go to the doctor, when it turns out, like I just actually have the bronchitis and be like, Oh, my elderberry is going to cure it. Like, I’m going to be like, Hey, you know what, that was more than just a cold and I actually need to go to the doctor and get some antibiotics.

Megan
I’m just gonna drink my special juice and sniff my peppermint and frankincense and it will be fine. If I have a migraine, I’m taking a Tylenol. Like, I’m sorry. Yeah, we have drugs for a reason. Yes. And it’s because they work.

Stephie
Yes. Yeah, I so please, please refer like we are not hitting hating on like, all hippie things. Because, again, refer to a hippie episode, that I definitely think that there are times when essential oils are great for certain things. Like, I definitely think that lavender is helpful and kind of helping, like, create a peaceful environment. I love it and a bubble bath at the end of the night, it helps me kind of feel a little bit relaxed so that I can sleep. I think that’s great. Like, there’s definitely like a time and a place for different things. But, but,

Megan
right. I also just want to touch on I know this is getting kind of long, but I feel like we’d be really remiss if we did not touch on the fact that this whole girl boss situation is really clustered in

Unknown Speaker
white women. Yes.

Megan
And even if they’re, you know, single moms that are struggling, it’s the background generally of upper middle class. situations where like, maybe they don’t have to work. They’re just doing it for fun to be with their girls. It’s all set. It’s partially because like, a lot of it’s a scam and not gonna make any money. So those are the only kinds of people who can do it.

Stephie
Yes. There’s that also like even it is hashtag girl boss that is fueled by the patriarchy. By go on. I feel like it is your hashtag girl boss, but you’re doing it within the confines of what like is acceptable to your husband. Yes, you agree with that tag girlboss scene in the confines of what is acceptable to male society, so that you can still stay home and cook your husband dinner when he comes home, and homeschool, homeschool your kids and keep the house clean. And also make that full time income from your phone two hours a day while the baby naps. And again, here’s I just I always feel like I have to caveat when I say shit like that. Like, if you stay home, your stay at home mom. And that’s like you it’s your thing. You love being a stay at home. Mom, you love making dinner when your spouse comes home. Like I if that is genuinely where you want to be in your life. I absolutely support you. But I definitely because a lot of these companies are very big in the Christian community. And the Christian community is all about the Proverbs 31 woman, what’s the Proverbs 31 woman, the woman who is submissive to her husband, and she is the perfect wife and she’s the perfect mother and she’s the perfect housekeeper. And like, she does all of these things. And she is meek and she’s mild. And she like all of these things. And even like we this is a whole nother conversation. This is like a whole nother episode that we can have in another time. But growing up in the evangelical church. I like even as a young woman would hear about like, Oh, we should be like the Proverbs 31 woman and I was like, gross. Why? That’s I don’t know. That sounds really boring. I have no interest in being that like, I want to be a wife and I want to be a mother but I also want to do big things with my life. And I absolutely had guys who like didn’t want to date me because of that. I had a I had a boyfriend who I was too. My ambition was too big for him. And he always he tried to hold me back for a lot of years until I finally dumped his ass. And, like, if you like be if you want to be a girl, boss, be a fucking boss. You don’t you don’t need to be a girl boss, be a boss. Like, go for it. But so much. I just feel like so much of this like hashtag robots. Like MLM culture is a way of like, Oh, yeah, we’re like, hashtag girl boss, but it’s done within the confines of what the patriarchy finds acceptable for what women are doing. I will not step off my soapbox.

Megan
Yeah, and I will say, you know, I don’t want to be a girl boss. I’d rather be a boss. But also, if we’re going to use the term girl boss, like, take it back. And yes, apply it to people who truly are bad asses. Like our friend Jamie, who was like, screw you guys. I’m starting my own legal firm.

Stephie
She’s like, do what I want bad pitches we know.

Megan
Right? She’s amazing. Like she would be the perfect person that I would actually want to use the term girl boss for but she’s just a bad boss.

Stephie
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So again, like I i’m sure someone’s gonna be like, you’re just hating on blah, blah, blah. And we, I get I think I speak for you, when I say this, like, we are not hating on the people that are trapped in the cycles. The people that are, you know, stuck within these companies or feel like they can’t get out or got pulled in and feel feel bamboozled and can’t get out. Or even the people that are in them and like, are happy and think that this is great, a great that they truly think that this has been a great opportunity for them. Like, we are not hating on those individual people. We are hating on the manipulative and these manipulative companies that are scamming people who just want to try to make their lives better. And in the patriarchal systems within which within which they operate, that we’re hating on. Yeah, and I do any people who knowingly are going out and scamming people, fuck you guys.

Megan
As you think, you know, if you if you aren’t good at one of these jobs like that, it does take a certain skill, it takes skills to be good at these jobs. And it’s not to say that people who aren’t successful don’t have skills, it’s just not the same skill, it is a sales job. Yeah, they’re all sales jobs. And if you are killing it with these sales jobs, you can go get a job at any number of Fortune 500 companies that need salespeople, and kill it there and wait, make more money, get benefits have a career trajectory. And not be trying to scam other people and pull them in to this web

Stephie
that is actually sell like the product you’re selling. And not just be like also trying to recruit people to like be on your Yeah, you could actually just do the thing, just like yeah, job where you can like do the work. So and again, I say like, just get a job. Like, I understand that there’s a lot of systemic things that can make that very hard. But so again, we do not hate on the people who get caught and the systems and who are victims of these systems. What we hate are the people that are taking advantage the companies that are taking advantage of the people that are trapped in these systems. So that is where the problem lies. In case it wasn’t clear. Just want to be extra clear the

Megan
if you have made it this far, they will know where we stand that we don’t just hate people. So hopefully,

Stephie
hopefully, they’re on it, but

Megan
we just have a lot of things to say about it. I feel like we could kind of just ramble and rant on it for a while. I mean, who among us? Who among us being white women of a certain age has not purchased Lula row. Right. Like it was everywhere. We all bought it. We were all stupid. Like it happens. We’re moving on. We learn. We learn. It’s all education. Every bit of life is education.

Stephie
It is all education. Hey, Cheyenne. So there you go. There’s our There’s our soapbox for the week. Let’s pivot. Let’s talk about joy. Meghan, what is bringing you joy this week?

What’s bringing us joy?

Megan
While Samantha is bringing me joy this week actually was an annoyance at first. Oh, but now it’s joy, because as longtime listeners will know, we enjoy crafting. Yes. And we enjoy reality TV shows, perhaps with some competition thrown in. And one of the shows that I really like is making it oh my god, I love it. So yeah, and I found out on Sunday at the very end of there before it was before the closing ceremonies, but it was the end of like, their daytime programming or whatever, for the Olympics. Uh huh. That making it was coming back this Thursday. And I said, Oh, interesting. So I looked it up on the computer, and found out that making it has been on all summer long. And I did not hear a word about it from either NBC, Twitter, or the crafting community in general. And I feel very disappointed to have had to find out through the one commercial, they showed up at NBC. Like we’ve been watching the Olympics in primetime, like pretty much every day. Yes. And they did not show a single commercial for it. Oh, it was all commercial. Like granted. They have to get their sponsor money.

Stephie
Horrible Toyota adopt adoption commercial, which is problematic in its own right. If you have questions, you can message me anyway.

Megan
But yeah, they didn’t promote their own stuff until the very last day, so I didn’t know what’s happening. I didn’t know I didn’t know all summer that it was happening. But now, we’ve been able to watch it because it’s on Hulu, the old episodes that have previously aired and I go back and start watching them. The first episode Nick Offerman cries, well, we gotta love him. So that is worth it just for that. It just makes me so happy because they’re, they’re making crafts and they’re just bright and colorful and cheerful and everyone like how could it not be happy? That’s great. Love it. So and they’re also talented. I feel like such a schlub after watching the show. But Oh,

Stephie
yes, I definitely am like, Oh, I have no talents. I’m worthless. It’s fine. I’m either well, either. It depends on the episode. Sometimes I’m like, I finished watching and I’m super inspired. And sometimes I’m like, my God, I have no talents. This is the same thing of watching. Great British Bake Off. Like sometimes I watch it. And I get like really inspired and come up with recipe ideas. And sometimes I watch it and I’m like, I could never do that. So it just depends.

Megan
I was funny because we were watching it because Bob wanted to watch it too. And so he was we were judging the final or the not the final but the you know, the second, the mastercraft Uh huh. And we’re, we always try to guess you know, who’s gonna be the winner. And he’s like, he’s like, Oh, I thought this one should have won because it’s like, really cool. And I’m like, it is very cool. But he didn’t really follow the directives that was laid out for them. So that’s why he didn’t win. And he was just like, what I’m like, Well, you know, they had to do this thing. And that was just really wasn’t represented and what he meant

Stephie
he didn’t fulfill the brief. Okay, right.

Megan
He didn’t do the brief Bob. So either I have watched too many of these shows or it’s like my few classes of art history critique

Unknown Speaker
creeping back into

Stephie
my life. I’m combo that all all of all the things you’ve been watching so many Olympics, so much Olympics of like, I don’t know, that did not look like a 10 point dive to me kind of situation. When you’re like, I couldn’t do that, but I can judge it.

Megan
Yep. Yep. Of course, the overproof those those. As I said, cookies, you don’t prove cookies. Oh my gosh, it’s been a while since I have watched the show. Okay. Anyway, making it brings me bringing me joy until I run out of episodes and then I’ll be sad again. Love it. What’s bringing you joy? Um,

Stephie
so Saturday morning, I was watching. I was watching Bluey with Ed. I think I’ve mentioned blue before. It’s so cute. And I love it so much. But I was watching and you know, just having a low key Saturday morning and then this episode towards the end of season two came on and it’s called baby race. All the blue is on Disney plus. So if people have not watched blue, he really should go watch it because it’s just great whether you have young kids or not. And in this episode, it’s about blue. We like taking her first steps. And like her mom being dismayed that she’s like, not walking as fast as her peers. And then this like, more like this mom with a bunch of bunch of kids. It’s like, you’re doing great. And like, you’re just doing really good. She’s doing everything in her own time. And like, I am parenting a delayed Walker. And sometimes I’m a little rough with myself about it. And I like started crying. I stressed this episode, like made me cry. And then I went back the next day, and I just like, watched it by myself, because it’s just like the best. I don’t know. It’s just such a good reminder. Like all parents, like you’re doing a really good job. So that is bringing me joy, that episode, actually the whole show. But what are the odds that I’m going to put my child in a Bluey Halloween costume this year, probably pretty high. is bringing me joy. So I highly recommend if you have to stay plus, go watch Bluey, even if you don’t have young kids, because it’s such a delightful show. And it’s very, very funny and has just very sweet moments. So

Megan
it sounds like a lot of the Disney plus cartoon writers are like really paying attention to actual issues that people have.

Stephie
Well, so apparently, on this show, I read like a whole, like a super long article about the creators of bluee. This is not an Australian show. And I guess like the creator like his he’s a dad and he like writes all of the episodes basically based on things that have happened like with his kids, like in his family. He like writes all of them and whatever. And I just I think that that’s why they’re just so wonderful because they’re just based on like real, real parenting things that a real parent is going through and doing and like, I don’t know, it’s just, it’s, it’s a really wonderful show. That’s really nice. I’m like not even low key obsessed. I’m highkey obsessed. So

Megan
also, the title is very fitting because everything with parenting feels like it’s a race.

Stephie
Yes, it’s it. Yeah, the baby race. It’s very, it’s really cute. It’s a very cute episode, it will make you cry, it will hit you in the fields. It will make you laugh. There’s like these perfect little episodes are only seven minutes long. So somehow, they pack this major punch in seven minutes. But like the because most of the episode is focused on the mom, and then Bluey when she’s a baby. And the dad isn’t really in the episode, but he like pops up sort of in the background has these very funny moments just like in the background. It’s just watch chefs kiss perfection. So everybody go watch it. 10 out of 10 recommend. Love it.

Next week’s episode

So next week, we are going to be talking about traveling and anxiety because boy, don’t we know that those two things really go together or these days.

Megan
I mean, like we have enough anxiety problems as it is trying to think about anxiety like travel now is just, ah, it’s a lot.

Stephie
It’s a lot. We’re going to talk about it.

Megan
So join us back here next week as we discuss all of those things and we’ll have a special guest too. In the meantime, you can follow us on social media at irsipodcast or send us an email at idratherstayinpodcast@gmail.com. We’d love to hear from you. Bye

Transcribed by https://otter.ai