Hello! Welcome to episode 105 of I’d Rather Stay In. This week, we’re chatting all about drinking culture with our friend Susannah.

Quick links

• Follow Susannah on Instagram and on her blog
• Tired as F*ck by Caroline Dooner
• Ritual Zero Proof
• Lyre’s
• Seedlip Non-Alcoholic Spirits
• Pipsticks sticker subscriptions
• I Weigh with Jameela Jamil

Episode transcript

Megan
Welcome to I’d rather stay in with your host Megan Myers and Stephie Predmore. This week we’re chatting about drinking culture with our special guest, Susannah Brinkley Henry, stay tuned.

Stephie
Do you love listening to I’d rather stay in and want to support the podcast? Well, now you can visit our website or the link in our Instagram profile and click Buy me a coffee or visit buy me a coffee.com/irsi podcast for the price of a cup of coffee, you can help us cover the costs of creating this podcast. There are no monthly memberships, and you could support us at whatever level you like, whenever you like, whether you buy us one coffee, many coffees or simply continue listening as always, we’re so grateful for your support

Hello, Megan.

Megan
Hi, Stephie

Stephie
so I went got my nails done this morning and ran a couple errands afterward. i Well, the guy that was doing my analysis was like asking me he’s like, oh, you know, what are you doing after this? I was like, Oh, I’m gonna run some errands. Like you’re gonna hit the grocery store and stuff like that. And he was like, he was like, oh, like, what grocery store do you like to go to? And I was like, wow, that is a loaded question. Ask me because it depends on what I need. Right? But yeah, so then I had I finally admitted to myself that I am becoming an old and that being on my feet in the kitchen all day barefoot is like kind of a bad idea. So I went and got some kitchen clogs, so that I don’t hurt after a full day of like recipe testing, because that’s the thing. And then I went to the bookstore, because they had a used book that I wanted to pick up. And I was like, Um, hi. Also the world is falling down around us and I need something kind of like fluffy and light hearted to read. Also, I would really love if it was not written by a sis straight white person. And the gal was she’s like always knows all of the things and so she pointed me to some just super kind of light hearted LGBTQ romance books. So I picked up a couple of those and I’m very excited to read those and not be hopefully depressed afterwards the end that’s my story

Megan
are the clogs comfortable because I always have questions about them because they look so uncomfortable to me

Stephie
their dansko clogs. So they have like lots and lots of like arch support and such, which I have very high arches. So I’m going to need that. I mean, they felt pretty good. Just like walking around the shop. I’m going to be doing a full recipe testing day tomorrow. So that’ll be my official like test of them. I will keep you posted. I mean yeah, they don’t look they don’t look like for your like yes, these are gonna be super comfortable. But honestly, I think what I mostly need is like some good support. So yeah, that’s what we that’s what we do and out here.

Megan
They also look very ugly.

Stephie
They’re not the cutest although I tried to just get some like plain black one so that they at least are less ugly. Yeah, they’re not like cute, but you know what? I apparently am not old enough that I’m like well that’s fine. Also, like I have had I have actually had much uglier shoes for like waiting tables before because there are no like not cute nonslip like food service shoes. So I had I have had uglier these are not as bad as some I’ve had. It’s all relative. What’s new with you? What’s up?

Megan
Apparently my dog has separation anxiety. That’s good. We were we were away last weekend. And I mean I was away like you know from I mean, we like us, you and I and apparently the whole time I was gone. She was very sad. She would not like cuddle up with anyone. She wouldn’t sit on the couch with anybody. She preferred to sleep on the couch at night instead of up stairs in our bedroom where she normally sleeps. And ever since I have returned home, she has been like, glued to me on the couch and or chair. So I’ve been usually a lot of times I sit on the couch to work and I decided the other day that I would sit in the other room where we have some comfy chairs. And they’re like they’re good sized chairs. Like, I guess I don’t know if they’re like one and a half size chairs or whatever they are, but the dog has decided that they’re actually,

Stephie
to creature chairs, they are human doctors.

Megan
They’re human dog chairs because she has squished herself into the chair next to me. Like being every time I sit down

Stephie
on the couch next to the chair, or in the same room as you it’s not enough. We must be touching mom at all times. Right?

Megan
Right. Like there’s another chair and a couch in that room where she could sit and be close to me. Oh apps, but now she has to be laying on like right next to me with her head on my lap. Which makes it very hard to type.

Stephie
Yeah, yeah. It’s a

Megan
it’s a whole thing. It’s a whole she’s she’s a lot.

Stephie
Yeah, every time I come home from a trip Cora is just like so far up my asshole. I’m like, girl. I can’t, I legitimately cannot. So I know how that goes. They I mean, Cora is 11 pounds and not, you know, 50. But it’s still, that also means that she can get into some more annoying spots.

Megan
Like that. Like she can’t she can’t sit on my lap while I’m at my desk or anything like Yes. So

Stephie
stick her paw in your breakfast.

Megan
Right now she is sitting on the couch and just like staring at me with her head on the arm. Or in the other room? I’m Oh, no.

Stephie
Yeah, God bless them. Um, so as a reminder, we are doing a book club. Very excited about it. So next week, obviously, we’ll mention this at the end of the episode. But next week, we’re gonna have our little chat about the book tired as fuck, which I keep trying to call I’m fucking tired. It that’s it’s similar similar vibes. And the book is called Tired as F*ck it is by Caroline dooner. It’s excellent. We are both reading it. And we’re going to talk about it next week. So if you are interested, you can grab the book. It’s a pretty quick read. It’s sort of this almost like anti self help book a little bit. It’s it’s really interesting so far. But yeah, we’ll talk about that next week. So you want to pick up a copy from your library or your local bookstore or on your Kindle, whatevs. Please join us. However,

Megan
however you get

Stephie
your books, wherever you grab your literature. Please feel free to join us for that.

Megan
I need to finish it still.

Stephie
I mean, if you thought I was done with it, then you have severely underestimated me or overestimated me, I guess as a human being. I’m not I’m not I don’t even know that I’m halfway through. So I got some homework to do. But we’re good. It’s fine. I guess that is what

Megan
it is the it’s just that I’m also trying to like, take, like, make notes as I’m reading it, right? Because we’re gonna be talking about it. So I feel like I need to be 10 times more present as I’m reading it. Normally,

Stephie
yes, yes. Yes, I did find some posts at flags. So I have been able to actually act like tab flags, some spots. So that was very helpful in my life. But yes, I do need to I do need to finish it. But I was finishing up my other book club book. You know, so I’m only in the middle of 87 books at any given time in my life. It’s fine. my to be read pile is enormous.

Megan
I don’t trust anybody who does not have multiple books going out the same time.

Stephie
My husband is really hard to trust because he’s just not really a reader. And so you know, it’s fine. I make up for it, though. My he and or myself and Eden make up for his lack of to be read pile. Because boy, how do you do we have a lot of them. So

Megan
yeah. Well, one thing that has been on my mind ever since becoming a parent and especially during the pandemic is drinking culture.

Stephie
Yeah, so we thought we would talk about this with our friend Susanna Brinkley. Henry. She runs the cocktail blog feast and west. Welcome back, Susanna.

Susannah
Hey, thank you for having me again.

Megan
Good to have you. I know we just saw you but it’s like so nice to chat with you. Voices. Yeah. So you were on the show. You’ve been on a show twice. You talked about color theory and typography. That was about a year ago when you were last on so what have you been up to since then?

Susannah
Hmm, I don’t think I guess biggest things around here, I, I left my full time job to go full time with freelance on my blog. So that’s been really exciting. And we got a dog. And that’s like, she’s 66 pounds of anxiety, and she’s something special. But, yeah, look, things are good.

Stephie
Those are both very exciting things that we have enjoyed for your life. So okay, so you know, you run a cocktail blog. And so we felt like, this is a great opportunity to just talk about American drinking culture. And, you know, we are going to be talking pretty specifically about drinking culture here on the US because A, it’s where we live. Also be because it does seem to differ from a lot of other countries. I know that the three of us have traveled around quite a bit and, you know, have been able to just kind of see the difference culturally and how Americans approach alcohol and drinking versus other countries. And, you know, obviously, drinking culture has evolved a lot throughout the decades, we went from prohibition to, you know, across 100 years to now. But there is always had a strong presence in this country. So can you walk us through a brief history of our approach to drinking in the US?

Susannah
Yeah, for sure. So, alcohol is obviously like, not from the United States. So they’re, you know, like, wine is really old. And beers really old. We don’t own any of those things. But before the US was founded, alcohol is really used as medicine. And that’s definitely how it started in the US, like it was brought over. You could get like tinctures and, you know, different kinds of mixtures that would supposedly cure you of all of your ailments. And that’s really what alcohol was the US, like, from Colonial Era on. But I think, as people settled here, they, you know, started drinking for five minutes, you know, would import wine and ROM and things like that whiskey too. And then a lot of people think that prohibition like started in the 1920s. But it is actually in the 1820s. There’s a like religious temperance movement that just kind of went around with saying that alcohol is destroying families and marriages and needed to be banned. And so a lot of states actually did ban it before. Before the constitutional ban and thing to maintain. But first, before that, to alcohol is banned for like wartime measures. Something I did, I had forgotten. Oh, and I was like, brushing up a little bit. So after World War One, the President said that we needed the greens for for food. And so they said they had to stop alcohol production. And so that was in the 1970s. And then they banded officially in 1919. And there were many reasons. So there was a lot of like public drunkenness and like not a lot of like laws about how alcohol was sold and moving around. And, and people I guess, were showing up to work drunk, and there were factories, and that was not good. So there were just a lot of reasons that led to it. And it didn’t really help at first, but people really wanted to drink and so it kind of led to more crime because people were bootlegging, making moonshine and making speakeasies in the basements of buildings, you would not suspect and then there was smuggling alcohol across the lines and like in you know, into the country out of the country, and there’s criminal activity around that to like, like the mob and things like that. So and there were some things that were still legal, like medicinal liquors and embitters So and then like, you know, maybe like cleaning products and things too. So people were making stuff called bathtub gin, and moonshine. I know I would alcohol is another one’s really sounds really excited. And like cocktail. The idea of the cocktail goes back to Britain people would make punches but what we know is like the mixed drink today where it really came out of prohibition because you didn’t want to drink a lot of bathtub gin at a time so you would want to like mix it with fruit or citrus or some bitters to kind of mask the these really cling flavors. And so that’s, that’s where that idea really came from. And then we had the Great Depression. And Franklin Roosevelt was running for president and he ran on a campaign of creating jobs and repealing the Second Amendment. And so people were really excited about that, and he was elected. And then people think that when the 21st amendment was created, is when prohibition ended and actually didn’t, some, some states continued to ban alcohol until 1966. I know where I live in North Carolina, we got rid of prohibition in 1935. So it just kind of vary depending on where you are. And then, like, fast forward to now, we still have a lot of Prohibition era laws, like in place and many states around the world, especially, especially here in North Carolina, we saw a lot of them. And

I feel like drinking, for fun, like really came out of prohibition, because people missed it. And I was just kind of like something that has carried on from generation to generation, like, oh, let’s have a drink after work, or oh, let’s have a drink, during work, or whatever. And so I know, that’s a long history, but I feel like that’s led us to where we are now.

Megan
I feel like in the United States, it’s like a, it’s like two extremes, like we either go from like, prohibition or like binge drinking. And whether like drinking as fun or drinking is the absolute worst thing you could possibly do to yourself. It’s like, it’s just a very, very extreme. So why do you think drinking culture in the States is so different from other countries?

Susannah
I think I think a lot of it has to do with prohibition. And I think a lot of has to do with our drinking age, like our drinking age is 21. And in most countries, it’s a lot sooner than that. The United States is one of the oldest drinking ages in the world. Some Asian countries, I think, have 25 as the drinking age. But most countries are like 1618. I think that makes a big difference. Because you’re at home, and your parents can teach you how to drink responsibly. I know like my family, my mom’s family is from South Africa and the drinking age, there is 18. And I was always allowed to partake, because it was legal there. So when I was a teenager, and it was just nice, because we were expected to be an adult expected to be mature about it. And that was because you’re a dancer to your mom, or your grandma or whoever. And I think that makes a really big difference. Because here, it’s like, you know, go to college have a 21st birthday. That’s, that’s insane, and go crazy and binge. And that just sort of is the norm. I feel like that’s just it’s cultural, because of the laws we have in place.

Stephie
Yeah, I think too, like, I think, you know, in so many European countries, for example, it’s so normal to have a glass of wine with dinner. And it’s not or a beer, you know, maybe you’re in Germany, and maybe it’s beer, but like, just not even on like a special occasion, or you’re out to dinner or something. Like it’s just super common. And so I know a lot of people that grew up in Europe and like, even as kids, like, you know, not like five, but like, even I was like, young teenagers. It was not uncommon for them to have a glass of wine, you know, with like, a holiday dinner with their family, or, you know, take sips of their fit parents wine or beers or whatever. So like, I think that’s right, like, it’s something that is just normalized, they’re taught how to drink responsibly. And it’s not this, like, taboo thing that then oh my gosh, I have to do it secretly. And no one’s taught me how it’s just, you know, in so many ways. It’s not unlike sex, where like, if you’re not taught, like, Okay, here’s like, all of these things that you need to know about being safe. And that, you know, all you know, you can just completely go too far. Without even realizing that you’re doing that.

Susannah
Exactly. I really think it’s because of the taboo quality. Like, if you put a rule in place, it’s just asking to be broken, right?

Stephie
Yeah. 100% I mean, look at like, even there are so many like Southern states that are still so weird about like how you can buy Alcohol, it’s not that they’re not drinking. It’s just like even just buying it is super annoying. I know that you feel this pain a lot living in North Carolina. But there’s a there’s a lot of states in the South that and we don’t typically encounter that here, at least in the Midwest, like, there’s uh, occasionally there will be stores where you can’t buy alcohol before noon on Sundays. But that even is kind of disappearing. And so, yeah, there’s just like, even even buying it at the store is a pain in the ass. So how would people not like see that as being a little bit taboo?

Megan
Yeah, when we went to Arkansas last summer, the place we were staying at is a county where you can’t buy alcohol at all. And so everyone had to like, buy it ahead of time and bring it and then they’re like, Guys, you have to like, parcel out, like, what are you going to drink over this vacation? Because there’s nowhere to go to buy more?

Stephie
Yeah,

Susannah
yes, we are. We can’t buy liquor on Sundays here. Very recently, like in the last couple of months, you can now buy liquor at the distillery on a Sunday, which just like I remember, a few years ago, you couldn’t even buy liquor at the distillery. But there’s so many distilleries in North Carolina, and now that they’re trying to support them any way they can. So I’m really proud of our Carolina for making these strides. But we’re still so behind a lot of ways. Just a few years ago, you couldn’t buy alcohol at a restaurant before noon on Sunday. So like, if you were at brunch at 1130, you could not get a cocktail until 12. And you’d be you’d be asking the waitress like, can you bring me a mimosa, like at noon, and then they would ring your bell and, and they would bring out all the methods and everyone would share? Like

Stephie
I said, exaggerate what no one’s drinking. It’s not like like in North Carolina, everyone’s just like, I’m just not gonna drink. So it doesn’t matter. Like clearly people. Yeah,

Susannah
we don’t even have happy hour here. There’s no, you can’t have a special for a couple of hours. If you have, if your bar has a special you have to offer it for the entire day. So like, if it’s like, look, all local pints that are on sale on Mondays, or for $5 or whatever, then you have to offer that discount and the entire day, you can just do it for like from four to six. And whenever I go anywhere, I’m like, Oh, you can? This deal is only good until six. This is so interesting. Like,

Stephie
it’s honestly wild. You know, I also I was thinking to like, cuz like I you know, I traveled a number of places by remote, particularly within Europe. And like, I feel like Americans are just way more stressed out. Then, like, a lot of Europeans and our work culture sucks. You know, like, we get, like, 10 days of vacation a year and Europeans are like, I’m going to go on vacation for six weeks, eight weeks. Goodbye. You will not hear from me. So I even think just like things like that. Make a difference.

Megan
Oh, for sure. I mean, even I remember the last time I was in London, people would like like, it’s lunchtime. Everyone just goes to the pub. And like, has a beer. Yeah, sir. Lunch. And I’m like, what is happening? Like, you know, go drink with your lunch. And it’s totally normal and expected and you just go back to work because you’re just having a beer, you’re not getting drunk.

Stephie
I mean, even like in Spain, one of the first things when I studied abroad, like one of the first things they told us was like, okay, when you go to the bars and clubs here, like the pours are going to be really heavy. Like if you’re going to order a rum and coke, it’s going to be mostly rum and a little bit of coke, like just so like, that was definitely different. But also, they didn’t make a big deal about drinking. So like if I was out with my friends, and we were like talking to some like locals. And honestly, I countered this, I think in pretty much every country, maybe except for Ireland. But if I just didn’t feel like drinking that night, there would be you know, Hey, can I buy you a drink? Oh, you know what, actually, I’m not drinking tonight and they’d be like, okay, no follow up questions. It was not a big deal. Versus if I’m out with my friends in the states and I’m not drinking so like it is so common for people to then be like, Well, why not? Like there’s like follow up questions. We can’t just like let it lie okay. Right. Like are you okay are like, Well, are you driving like, Oh, you’re not driving the Why aren’t you like there’s there’s like this pressure that I have not felt in a lot of other There are situations outside of the US when I’m like, Hey, I don’t really feel like drinking tonight. They’re like, okay, that’s fine. So it’s, it’s very like that is very interesting to me that like different that dichotomy, like, Okay, we’re gonna, like, make these really strong drinks, but also like, if you don’t want to drink them, we don’t give a shit. What are the

Megan
bars close so much earlier? In other countries, at least the countries that I’ve been to like they close it like 11 Oh, well, the only way they can stay open later is if it’s like a club. Oh, yeah. But in England, like, especially pubs just they just close early. And then you’re like, if you’re from the States, you’re like, Well, what am I going to do for like, the next three hours? Because I’m used to drinking until two,

Stephie
well, then you better go to a club and also dance.

Megan
Right? Exactly.

Stephie
Yeah, I it is. So it’s so interesting. Because, I mean, we’re so used to it here. It doesn’t even I don’t know, I just didn’t even faze us in a lot of ways, which I think is getting to be kind of problematic. You know, one of the things that we and why I when I say we, I mean Megan and myself and also Susanna, because she’s a friend. So we know this. One of the things we absolutely hate is the concept of like, quote mommy wine time, or mom juice, and it’s supposed to be light hearted. But we can’t even like say it without Megan just having a reaction. It’s supposed to be light hearted, but it promotes this idea that you can’t parent without, like drinking to survive. And there are so many products like you can go to Target you can go to on Etsy you can go literally to just like shops that sell little kitschy things. And there’s going to be t shirts, and travel wine cups, and coffee mugs that say like, this is probably wine, or, you know, like any, like just merch, like booze merch. And it’s so weird. It is so weird. And it feels so problematic.

Susannah
Yeah, I agree. It’s like, I’m not a parent. So I can’t relate to how difficult it might be. But it’s just in general, like promoting this idea of you know, being tipsy to enjoy something serious or something that could be funny when I thought alcohol, it’s just, it is problematic because almost promoting alcoholism, but it masked by it’s pink, and it’s in scripts font. And, you know, and yeah, right,

Stephie
or it’s like a wine cooler, or it’s a seltzer. And so it’s not that bad.

Megan
Right? And makes me think of back, you know, in the the stereotype of like, you know, Mad Men era in the 50s and 60s, when, like, literally everybody was drinking all the time. And also, spoiler alert, like all of our grandparents were like, our grandmothers especially were like on methamphetamines through the day. So like, I don’t really feel like that is the great ideal to go back to and it’s just always confusing to me, where people are just like, oh, you know, it’ll be 11am And they’re, like, wish it was time for a drink. I’m like, Guys, maybe maybe think of other things. Like I know. One of the reasons why we enjoy drinking so much is that like, releases endorphins, and it makes you happy. But it’s when you get like past just the enjoyment of the drink. It’s too much escapism, I feel like,

Stephie
right. And I do think like when we flippantly say things like a good I need like a whole bottle of wine to get through this tonight or like I don’t know whatever. A I think they’re I think there’s two there’s two sides to this right like either a you’re saying that jokingly, but like you really do need it so you’re trying to in some ways like mask a problem that you may have. But also maybe that’s not maybe that maybe you really are just like joking about it but somebody you’re talking to might really struggle with alcohol consumption and alcoholism and so you know, I feel like it just adds to this pressure like we you should be drinking you have to drink to enjoy yourself. You have to drink to enjoy your life you have to drink to get through stressful things like instead of learning other like healthier coping mechanisms because parenting is stressful. Like I’ve said it so many times, but that doesn’t mean that it’s just okay to just like, drink yourself into a stupor every night after your kids go to bed either.

Megan
Right? Yeah. So how how do we reconcile this messaging that we get from advertisements and just pop culture in general, about drinking and with a knowledge of how it causes harm for people? I think you rebalanced that like, whole thing.

Susannah
Yeah, I think you have to be really self aware and have limits for yourself. Speaking personally, like, I have a personal rule that I don’t drink, when I’m sad. I just don’t like we, we had to put our kids to sleep recently. And I was just like, I’m not drinking this whole week, I’m just not like, I just, I’m sad about it. And I’m not gonna open a bottle of wine. And if I am thirsty, I can have a glass of water or I have a competition in the fridge, I have sparkling water, there are so many other delicious beverages that don’t have alcohol in them, that you can partake in and think just keep some of those on hand, like have a packaging drill in the pantry or whatever. That’s just something that you enjoy, that you can have when you feel like you are thirsty, or you want to drink, but you don’t want to have alcohol right now. I also try not to drink like, Have I got an important meeting the next day, or just try to be I try to be aware of like, I should celebrate this or like I deserve a treat. But, you know, where’s the line? It’s personal for everybody and different for everybody. So just think about yourself and what rules you would like to have. And I think that that’s how everyone should approach the balance is just, you know, think about what your own boundaries should be.

Stephie
Yeah, as a general rule, for example, like as a general rule, I don’t take shots, so to say I never have, but like, I just don’t like I don’t typically like shots anyway. And they get me too drunk too fast.

Megan
Mm hmm.

Stephie
So I just do that for the most part. So I think there’s lots of ways I think you’re right, there’s lots of ways to like, set the boundaries and figure out what is going to be the right boundary for you.

Megan
Yeah, and also, it kind of speaks like the, the fact that we have rules about not drinking while sad. Well, a lot of people when they’re sad, they turn to drink. And I think that really speaks to like the whole American pneus of it. Because Americans like very famously, do not want to feel their feels. And alcohol was like a huge player in that.

Stephie
I mean, like, I have absolutely been in places in my life where, like, I have gone out when I was really sad and be like, fuck this shit. Getting shit faced tonight. And I always regret it not because like do anything stupid. But like, I wake up the next morning feeling like ass and then I wake up the morning after that still feeling like ass and maybe the morning after that feeling. So like, I finally was like, this is stupid, like, and I feel my feelings very strongly. Like there’s nothing that makes me stop feeling my feelings. And but also it doesn’t make me less sad. I just feel sad, like more amplified. Sad. So that for me, I’m like, oh, no, we’re not doing that anymore. That’s not a Yeah.

Susannah
Also to just like, have something else that makes you happy. Like, yeah, a craft or a block, like something that you would enjoy doing, but it’s not drinking. I think it’s important to find those things for yourself what whatever they are.

Stephie
Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with that. You know, there’s a lot of reasons why people might not want an alcoholic drink. Besides being sober, like having like an alcohol a problem with alcohol and drinking. They just might choose not to, for any number of reasons. So, Susannah, like what are some good ways to be tactful about the situation if you’re a host? Or if you’re the person abstaining, I know that you like to. You’re an excellent host. You love to entertain so like, as a hostess. What are some of the ways that you try to be tactful for people who are choosing not to drink?

Susannah
Yeah, you want to have lots of options if you’re hosting so it seems I think it’s rude to just offer like for somebody water or soda, like, be a little bit more creative than that. Because if you’re not drinking, for any reason, you it’s easy to feel like your options are limited. And I think it’s always really nice to think about those people even if you don’t know who they are before they come. Just maybe it’s making a fancy water like a spa water with you know, food in it or having a non alcoholic version of whatever cocktail you’re serving, like, I, I often serve Moscow Mules when people come over just because, well, I like to drink them, they’re easy to make. And you can make them with so many different kinds of liquors, like you’d like him with rum or vodka or bourbon are so many things. But I also keep some zero proof spirits on hand. So I could make somebody like one that has faux gin or faux whiskey in it. And it could still taste like a drink, but it has no alcohol in it at all. So I have that as an option. Sometimes I’ll just have like, sparkling wine or some choices of flavored sparkling water and just, you know, give them the choices like, here’s, here’s everything I have, you can choose from what would you like, rather than just being like, oh, you know, drinking, here’s a water, you know, just give them give them the choice. And I think they’ll be happy with choices. You can wait, you only need a few choices, but like maybe two or three, but just the option. There’s so many things like a drink will make the person feel comfortable. And, and also don’t ask, don’t ask like, Oh, are you pregnant? Like, don’t?

Stephie
Please don’t ask that question. That’s so fucking triggering God, I cannot tell you how many times I’ve been asked that. And I’m like, deep in the middle of fertility treatments. And that’s why I can’t drink and I’m like, I hate I hate you. I literally,

Susannah
yeah. So we’re so many reasons. It could be medication, or you know, they’re not, they’re driving or they’re struggling with alcoholism, or they just don’t want to talk about it. Like, don’t don’t.

Stephie
Yeah, I really appreciated Megan hosted Thanksgiving this year for us. And like one of our friends that was there is pregnant, and Megan had some spa water and she had some like hot cider and things like that. So like, even though we did have some wine and some beers available, like our friend and also, you know, like the kids had an option that wasn’t just like, here’s your sad water. But, you know, I also like there are so many really good. Like syrups and non alcoholic mixers on the market these days, like really cool flavors, really delicious ones that you can mix with sparkling water or ginger ale or seven up or you know, whatever it might be without even having to have like a zero proof liquor or something in there. That can make just make you feel like you’re having a really special drink. So I, we you and I don’t know how why I’m saying it this way. The three of us plus our other friend Sam were out last week when we were together. And I was like, okay, like I’ve had I’ve had enough alcohol. I’m a switch to weed. But I was like, Okay, I’m done with like drinking. And so we were at Cabra in Chicago. And I was like, you know, what non alcoholic options do you have? And they were like, Oh, we can make you know, this cocktail that a couple of you guys had ordered. We can just make it without the tequila. And it was delicious. It was so good. And they still put it in a pretty glass. It looked like I was having the same drink as you guys. But I wasn’t alcoholic. So I felt like because I have been again like that person out of the bar. And the only thing I can get is like soda or like a ginger beer but they don’t even like shows it up. They’re literally just like, here’s your ginger beer in like a water glass. And it’s so obvious that you’re not drinking and then people are like, Why are you drinking? Why are you just drinking ginger beer? I’m like, fuck off.

Susannah
If you even do that, are they giving you a surely

Stephie
lucky right? Yes, yeah, it otherwise it’s like, here’s some

Megan
some club soda.

Stephie
Here’s writing

Megan
like, gross tonic water.

Stephie
By itself. Yeah. No, thank you not interested on that. Yeah.

Susannah
I also just make you a Shirley Temple. And you’re like, here is a bright pink like, flag that says I’m not drinking. Right.

Stephie
Right. And also, I’m seven years old. Like

Susannah
Exactly.

Megan
My kids do love us. Really? Right. Like,

Stephie
I mean, I get to drink but it looks like they don’t again, like they don’t like Susannah said like, it’s not even like they even put an effort to make it not look like it’s a kid’s drink when they hand it to you. You’re like, right, well, Coco Coco Yeah. At least give me

Megan
a club soda, like put a lime in it like something.

Susannah
Yeah. You asked me earlier, like a way that somebody could be tactful if they’re the person abstaining? Yes. And I would. I have a friend who will bring a koozie in her purse and when she was pregnant, she just like always popped her spindrift in a koozie and like nobody asked any question questions. And I thought that was so smart. I was like, she’s just, she just has this ready to go. And it just is sort of hiding the fact. And, like, I don’t think you should have to hide it. But it certainly, like helped her to not have any questions. And sometimes she would even like, bring her own sparkling water, like just to hang out. And she’s just like, I just, I would just rather have this and that was her answer. And so I thought that was so smart. So that’s something you could do is just, you know, bring something or be creative with whatever ingredients somebody has at their house. Like if they weren’t thoughtful, that sucks, but you know, is there can you pour yourself a ginger ale or, you know, kind of make make your own cocktail box mocktail out of what they have to make drinks with? I don’t know, there’s some, some options for you.

Stephie
Yeah, for sure. Especially, I think if they have like, a really well stocked bar. Like, like, I think about your bar at your house. Like, I feel like I could just be like, Hey, do you mind if I just like, kind of play around and like, make myself something? And like, they’re probably gonna be like, Yeah, that’s cool. And then you can secure your whatever without, especially like, if you aren’t comfortable. And I think I think like, you know, I think in so many situations, it is totally fine. Or it should be totally fine for you to say like, Hey, do you have any, like, non alcoholic options, or, you know, to be able to feel like you can ask, but if for some reason you don’t feel like you can bring it, you want to bring attention to it? That is absolutely your choice. And so, you know, I think that just kind of, you know, like you said, just sort of being able to say, hey, you know, do you mind if I just kind of mixed myself something and then you can kind of make whatever you want without saying anything if that is not something that you feel comfortable with.

Megan
For sure. So like Stephie said, you know, places like Cabra and some other places like they’ll just, you know, take a cocktail and turn it into an alcohol cocktail. There are some places that actually have non alcoholic cocktail mocktail situations like on their menus. There was a restaurant that we went to in Minneapolis, and they had all these different like iced tea varieties basically, like Louie’s like iced tea cocktail or iced tea mocktail things, and they were delicious. So that was a really good option too. And so there’s all these companies kind of jumping in on this trend, like they’re seeing that people want more non alcoholic options. And there’s a lot of zero proof brands popping up. And so I was wondering if you had any favorites that you recommend?

Susannah
Oh, yeah. So the ones I have on my house right now are by ritual, ritual zero proof. And they have I think they’re, they’re my favorite right now. I certainly haven’t tried a ton of them. And I’m when I’m working on it, I’ll liars is earlier and it smelled like the musical instrument is another brand. They have like a non alcoholic coffee like core and one that’s kind of like an an app or alternative. Those are really interesting. I haven’t tried those yet, but they’re on my list. But I’m working my way through these ritual ones. And what I like about them is they are marketed as like whiskey alternative. So it’s like a flavored water. And it has like a smoky flavor and a caramel flavor and just kind of all the same notes that you would experience drinking bourbon or whiskey, but they have infused it into the water and so it has like the same like Carmel coloring. Like I think it’s natural, it’s not like added and if you sip it, it it has the viscosity of water. And I feel like that’s the thing that I noticed the biggest difference in is that it just alcohol has like a slightly different texture and you wouldn’t really think about alcohol having a texture but it has the the mouthfeel gross word of water and but it’s good if you can mix it into drinks just the same way that you would mix regular bourbon. So you could you could make an old fashioned with it if you would like or you know add some bitters or you can make it with the sour or you could make a a Moscow Mule with urban Kentucky mule like there’s so many ways you can use it just like one for one this so they have a gin alternative, a tequila alternative, a rum alternative and a whiskey alternative. I think that’s I think that’s all they have right now. And I have all of them. I’m just sort of like working my way through them. But another brand that’s really popular is seedlip s e d li P, and they have their spirits are more like they’re not marketed as alternatives. They’re just like, this one’s infused with cloves and lemon and just they just sound really nice. And you could mix any of them with like ginger ale or club soda or whatever mixer you would like to imbibe. And you know, you can be creative at Lime juice or orange juice or whatever floats your boat, I feel like that they’re actually really fun to mix with because you have these sort of like flavor bases to play with. So I’m really having fun with them. And I have enjoyed having friends over who don’t want to invite me and just be like, Well, I have something for you. You want me to make you a map to and they’re like, oh, yeah, that would be great. And then they’re always like, This is so weird. It feels like I’m drinking, but I’m not drinking. So it’s, it’s always nice to have those on hand. And I’m really, really having fun with mixing with them for sure. Yeah, I love that.

Stephie
And like I said, there’s there’s also, gosh, we had the syrup at the restaurant. And I can’t remember what the brand was. But as a non alcoholic, like cocktail syrup. And you can and like, and there’s all sorts of different brands that make them there’s some that make like old fashioned syrups and stuff like that. And like in theory, they’re kind of intended so that you can like quickly make a cocktail. But if you mix them with a non alcoholic mixer, you know, club soda, tonic water, ginger ale, Sprite, like anything like that. They have a lot of those same flavor notes that you would still get in a cocktail. And so like, that’s also a great thing that you can keep in your pantry, or your bar or whatever. If you don’t want to keep like the zero proof liquors, like there’s just there’s so many different ways like this world is so creative. And I It makes me happy to see a lot of a lot more restaurants, embracing serving, like really nice mocktails or non alcoholic drinks, again, that aren’t just like yours, your here’s your sad, tonic water with nothing in it. And like making them look really beautiful. Like we were even at three dots and a dash in Chicago, which is a Tiki Bar last week. And they had a non alcoholic option on their menu, which I thought was really great. So

Susannah
it was up at one restaurants have not alcoholic out.

Stephie
And it was it was right there with the other drinks. Like it wasn’t like oh, here’s like the section for little kit. It was like it was marked very clearly as non alcoholic, but it was like, right in there with all of the other drinks. So you didn’t feel like you would be missing out if you ordered it. I actually would have ordered it if it had something in it that I thought was disgusting. So that’s a reason I did not order it. It. I can’t remember what it was. But otherwise, I would have gotten it. Because I was just so impressed.

Unknown Speaker
I think it had cocoa nibs in it.

Stephie
Oh yeah, that’s exactly disgusting. I don’t want

Megan
I would have enjoyed it. But me too.

Stephie
Yeah, so I don’t know, there’s just so many ways, if you obviously like I am deeply embedded in the restaurant, community. And so I’m pretty vocal about you know, when my talk to my like my bartender friends and stuff like about coming up with different ideas. Also, like if you were the person at a bar, and it is like, it’s just like a your neighborhood watering hole situation, but it is like a nicer restaurant or a nicer bar. And you don’t see anything on the menu like don’t be afraid to ask like I did at the restaurant at Cabra like, there wasn’t anything listed on the menu. So I just asked like, do you have anything that you can do and they were able to make something really nice for me. So a lot of times, you know, bartenders yes, they make their living from mixing together. alcohols but they have a great flavor palette. They know it’s gonna taste good they know what’s behind their bar. And so I’ve had customers ask me like hey, I’m sober Can you mix me up something and we’re able to put them put together something for them? Zero judgment absolutely zero judgment. So you know again, like hopefully you’re with people that you feel comfortable but even if you just kind of got a slip up to the bar and say like hey, do you have anything that you can make for me? A lot of times they’ll be able to mix you something custom that will still be super tasty

Susannah
Yeah, I would say to if you find yourself with a neighborhood watering hole where they’re like, you’re like I don’t know that they would even be able to help me like it might be good to have a non alcoholic drink and mindset like you would be comfortable being seen as like maybe you get like a Diet Coke with lime like it’s so you know, it will come with a garnish. So just asking for those things that you don’t feel uncomfortable. You just have like a go to that like If, if I’m in a place that doesn’t have options for me, like, what will I ask for, and just have that in your back pocket 100% There’s also so many like zero proof wine and beer brands now to like, that. I’m excited about like, it’s such an exciting industry. Right, right. I have a friend who’s pregnant, who was telling me about a video that she discovered recently, and I know that there’s one called gluten Berg. That’s a, like gluten free beer. And I can’t remember if it has alcohol. I think I think they have it on alcoholic option. But anyway, it’s like, just there’s so many options now. It’s really cool.

Stephie
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, hopefully, you are, you know, with, hopefully, you’re able to surround yourself with people like if you are, you know, living a life where you are choosing not to drink, and hopefully, you know, when you’re going out, you are around people that you feel comfortable. Just like being open about, okay, I would like something non alcoholic, but we I would just love for that to just be more normal.

Megan
Yeah, for sure. And also, like, you shouldn’t have to be apologetic about what Oh, is there

Stephie
anyone? Remember about it? Right? Remember, remember our episode about how we don’t apologize for things? One of the things that we don’t apologize for we’re not gonna apologize for being difficult. I know.

Susannah
You have a preference or any it’s like, go with it. Yeah,

Stephie
absolutely. There’s no like, oh my gosh, I’m so sorry. I’m not drinking tonight. No, just

Megan
hey, what do you mean, if your friends are your friends, and they’re still gonna want to hang out with you? Yes. And if they don’t want to hang out with you, because you don’t want to drink? They suck. Okay.

Stephie
I think that that’s so true. Like, and it’s true of many, many things. Like if your friends are judging you for not drinking, and they’re like, you don’t want to drink for any, any reason whatsoever. And they are pushing you. And they’re asking questions that are making you uncomfortable. They might not actually really be your friends. Like, I’m just because your true friends are going to support you. And whatever like you’re doing for your well being mental, emotional ish, you should be able

Susannah
to have fun with your friends without alcohol. Like, that should be the baseline. And then if you want to add on alcohol later, then great, but you should be able to have a good time, have a good conversation and laugh without needing alcohol to help.

Megan
Yes, absolutely.

Stephie
It is so rare. It’s so rare for me to like, be drinking with my friends actually, like unless we’re going out to like a restaurant or bar that has like really great cocktails.

Susannah
Unless your friend makes you go to the Tiki Bar in Chicago.

Stephie
It was delicious. It was extremely fun and extremely delicious. But like unless it’s like something like that, like I’m trying to think of the last time that Megan and I were just like together and we’re like yeah, we’re gonna drink some wine. It’s not very

Megan
often. No, it’s not. And then usually we don’t like like because usually we have Prosecco and then we don’t finish the bottle. So for like three weeks,

Stephie
we each have like a drink and yeah,

Megan
I shouldn’t really buy smaller bottles.

Stephie
I know. I know. I

Susannah
need them make champagne vinegar, little

Stephie
accidental champagne vinegar.

We all have we have all been there. So

Megan
Susannah, it’s always great to talk to you. I know it sounds weird maybe to have a cocktail blogger on to talk about not drinking.

Stephie
But I think that’s good. I think not to pat ourselves on the back. But like, yes, Susannah makes a lot of her income from talking about cocktails. But like even as a cocktail blogger, she you have great boundaries around drinking. You are constantly thinking about putting non alcoholic drinks on your site and sharing those with your readers and with your friends. So I think I think that you are a really great example of balancing drinking culture with supporting the needs for yourself, your family and your friends wherever they’re at in that particular sphere. So good. We have great friends good us.

Susannah
Yeah, I definitely really tried to like make sure I always added like non alcoholic option like it’s not always possible, but when it is I tried to mention it and like I think people will be surprised I really don’t drink that much for a cocktail blogger, but it just Yeah, I have the boundaries and it’s also my job so like I don’t want to be thinking all the time?

Stephie
Right? It’s constantly in a state of what’s happening. Mm hmm. Yeah, exactly.

Susannah
So I love trying new things. So I’m really happy about the low and no alcohol movement. That’s really exciting.

What’s bringing us joy?

Stephie
Susannah, what’s bringing you joy this week?

Susannah
I haven’t say okay. So a few months ago, I signed up for a stickers subscription. And it like at first I felt like I was five years old. But it actually has been like, really exciting to like, every month, I get a pack of stickers in the mail, and I put them in my planner. And it like, it seems like really stupid at the time. But it really brings me joy every month. And so I got a new cell recently, and it had some some plant stickers and some book stickers. And I was just like, I don’t know, it just brings out my inner kid. And I love it. And I highly recommend it. If you like stickers, too. It’s called PIP sticks is the name of the subscription. Oh, I

Megan
love their stickers. They’re so cute. Love. I was getting something out of my closet the other day. And I found like, I have so many stickers from when I was like one of the people who constantly put like 1000 stickers in their planner. And I just have so many leftover now. And I’m like, Oh, I’m not using these adorable stickers. So I need to get back to sticking them somewhere, I guess. Yeah,

Susannah
I was never a person. And then I got the subscription. And now I’m like every week I’m excited to use my planner because I get to look at the stickers that I put in. And then I get to like spend five minutes putting stickers on it. And it’s just like, it’s made me want to use the planner. So it’s actually had a really positive effects of my life.

Stephie
I love that. That’s fantastic.

Megan
Stephie what’s bringing you joy.

Stephie
I’m so while we were while we were in Chicago last week, my younger cousin, she had her graduate art show. She’s graduating with her master’s in drawing and painting or something along those lines from the School of the Art in Art Institute. I saw her graduate art show was last weekend while just like coincidentally while we were in the city. And so I got to go to that. And let me tell you a tale of haunted teeth real quick. So when Susanna came to town, she flew in from North Carolina, she came to Bloomington we hung around town. And we went to Megan and I kind of fondly refer to as the witchy store here in town. It’s called the painted Wraith. And I walked in and I was like this is the perfect place to buy my cousin Liz, a graduation present. Because she is the type of person one time she went to an antique store with my mom. And she left with a picture of a dead baby. She’s like routinely had just like random animals coals, just like as decoration in her house. So she’s just the kind of person and I ended up buying her. There were many options. I considered getting her formaldehyde mouse in a jar, but decided against anything that could look at me and ended up going with an antique dental cast. And she was fucking delighted by it. And also her dad, my uncle, he was at the show. And I mean her whole family was but my uncle who is also an artist was in particular also very delighted by the haunted teeth. So that’s amazing. My weird little family.

Unknown Speaker
I mean, just to be clear, they weren’t

Stephie
actual teeth. No, they were actual teeth. It was like it yeah, it was like the mold of the teeth. And then it had like this. You know, like specks grooves in it are Yeah, it was really interesting. It had it had like a hinge. So it kept them together and it could like open but then it like had a screw so you could like almost like set them as far open as you wanted. And I mean, I’m not even sure holder. Yeah, it was really I don’t know what was what use them for that would be an interesting idea. I mean, they were pretty cool. So they weren’t like actually teeth I just am have been jokingly referring to them as her haunted teeth. But she was just so delighted by them. And her reaction made me so happy and just the fact that I have such a weird little family of artists and musicians that that’s the sort of thing that literally none of them thought was a weird thing for me to buy Liz they were like yeah, that is absolutely 100% Liz, she will love that. So that that uh, that made me quite happy also, she’s very, very talented. And it was it was wonderful to be able to go support her and see her and see her show. So that was super great. Megan, how about you?

Megan
So when we were on the train back from Chicago, I listened to a recent episode of The i weigh podcast hosted by Jameela. Jamil and her guests was Mike shur, who was the creator of The Good Place, and other shows. And it was a delightful episode. They talked a lot about certain aspects of the show, especially the trolley problem, they talked about that a lot. And it just was really nice to listen to. And that reminded me that I’ve been meaning to re watch the good place. And so watch the whole first season on Sunday. And then I’ve been watching it since then. And it is still such a delightful show.

Stephie
She’s just been randomly texting me lines from the show. Yes.

Megan
Also, Bob has been watching it with me for like some of it like he didn’t watch it last night. But the night before he was watching it with me and like, he’s just sitting there like giggling at certain parts. I never watched it before. He has Yeah, he watched it. Later, like he watched it, like by himself later after it had already aired all the episodes. He wasn’t like into it like we were when it was airing, right. And so it’s fun to watch shows with him like that, because he just gets really giggly. Like I’m sure if we watched like the office together, he’d probably just be sitting there giggling so yes, I’m on Season Three already. And because the seasons are really short, and I’m already like, sad about how it’s gonna be over soon, but it’s such a good show. And I think I definitely rewatched it during the pandemic along with Parks and Rec. And it’s kind of like a nice reminder of, like, the way the world should be, you know, aside from like, all the stupid fart jokes. I mean, there’s a lot

Stephie
of there shouldn’t be those in the world either. Right? fart jokes when you delay the delivery, right?

Megan
But it’s like a good like Melaka deep thing on philosophy, but like a nice overview. And oh, the one of the reasons that make sure was a guest on her show is because he wrote a book on philosophy. Oh, and it’s called How to be perfect. So I think I might have to check out that book from the library.

Stephie
Yes,

Megan
I’m sure it would also bring me joy. So

Stephie
I’m sure it would.

Next week’s episode

Megan
So next week, as a reminder, we will be talking about tired as fuck, I’m excited.

Stephie
Reminder it is not I’m fucking tired it is. So until then, leave us a review on Apple podcasts. Listen to us on all your favorite platforms. You can also follow us on social media at IRSIpodcast or send us an email at idratherstayinpodcast@gmail.com We’d love to hear from our listeners. Bye

Transcribed by https://otter.ai