Hello! Welcome to episode 84 of I’d Rather Stay In. This week, we’re talking about deconstruction from religion with our friend Andie Coston.

Quick links

• Follow Andie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andie.ink/
• Jen Hatmaker’s website
• Glennon Doyle on Instagram
• Beth Moore’s website
• Hug Sleep Pod
• Lego Flower Bouquet

Episode transcript

Megan
Welcome to I’d rather stick in with your host Megan Myers and Stephie Predmore. This week we’re chatting with our friend Andie Coston about deconstruction from religion. Stay tuned.

Stephie
Do you love listening to I’d rather stay in and want to support the podcast? Well, now you can visit our website or the link in our Instagram profile and click Buy me a coffee or visit buy me a coffee.com slash IRSI podcast. For the price of a cup of coffee, you can help us cover the costs of creating this podcast. There are no monthly memberships, and you could support us at whatever level you’d like whenever you like, whether you buy us one coffee, many coffees or simply continue listening as always, we’re so grateful for your support.

Megan
Hello, hello Stephie

Stephie
How’s it going? Megan?

Megan
Pretty good. We had our school Open House today. sounds terrible. I ate was not as bad as I was expecting. I thought it would be more like our previous school where the open house was you had to basically use your kids schedule and go from class to class. And then in each class, they would talk to you. Oh, I

Stephie
remember that from freshmen in high school, like open house orientation. I remember that we did that.

Megan
Yeah. So I thought that would be what it would be like because they that was what the parents did when we started sixth grade. But this was super chill situation where we just get into the cafeteria, and they had like table setup. And we talked to some of the teachers Oh, that’s nice. Now we just they have, so they do pods, basically where they divided up all the kids. And so they just had our pods teachers at a table and we waited in line and then talk to them. And then we looked at each other. And we’re like, well, what are you supposed to do now? Because Did you? Well, we went we went down the hall and looked at where their classrooms were. And then base Yeah, but basically just left because there was nothing really to do. And we didn’t bring him with us. But almost every other family had their kid with

Stephie
the sounds really boring for the kids.

Megan
While we were waiting outside, and there were all these kids there.

Stephie
Because the kids have already started school. So they’ve met the teachers. It’s not like this isn’t? Yeah, I think it’s meant to be more.

Megan
I would guess they’re supposed to be more of like a year kids would then introduce the teachers to you and vice versa. And it would be a back and forth situation. No, of course, you’d have to ask him who everyone was. So we didn’t bring him because we also didn’t really have enough information. Really, they were just like, it’s open house come to the cafeteria. And we’re like, Okay, um, but we were we were thinking it was gonna last the entire scheduled time, but it was really just to come and go.

Stephie
Oh, well. Okay, that is definitely much better than Yes. Whatever. We were both imagining. Yeah, I

Megan
guess it was. I don’t know. It was weird, because you know, everyone has masks on stuff. So we’ve had the teachers but also not really

Stephie
you’ll never you will not recognize them if you run into them at the grocery store.

Megan
No, I mean, I wouldn’t anyway, I am that person when I go grocery shopping. I am in like the grocery shopping zone.

Stephie
Your face blind.

Megan
I completely face blind I ignore everyone else around me. super famous people could be in the next style. I would have no idea. I just seem like that I don’t pay any attention. I got it I got goals to take care of I can’t be bothered with who else is at the grocery store apparently.

Stephie
I mean thing. So I texted you this morning that about something that you were like we need to discuss this on the podcast. So a couple of nights ago as I was like getting ready to fall asleep. I had this anxiety spiral about the fact that we can’t know that what I see as a certain color is the same thing that you see as that certain color and the same thing that like our husbands see as that color and so on and so forth. And it sent me into this like really ridiculous anxiety spiral just before I fell asleep.

Megan
Did you know that? That is probably true though.

Stephie
I can’t handle I can’t handle I think that this happened because I had been watching new girl and like I just was had just like watched part of me Episode. Like there’s a episode of one of the later seasons where Winston gets colorblind glasses like apparently Winston’s been colorblind this whole time. Yeah. And so he gets his colorblind glasses. And I think that that like triggered in my brain like, Oh my god, how do we how do we know that what I see as blue is what you see is blue, and what’s the other person sees is blue? And oh my god, we don’t know. And you could be seeing something totally different than what I’m seeing. And we would never know. And oh my god, and like, the anxiety just like spiked. I couldn’t handle it. I had to, like, occupy my brain alsways because I was straight up having anxiety about it. And I texted our friend Bethany about it last night, too. And she was like, Why would you do this to me? And I was like, cuz I can’t suffer by myself, obviously. Right. So I didn’t case anyone else wanted to anxiety spiral about seeing colors. You’re welcome.

Megan
Yeah, it’s, it’s interesting, though. It’s actually like a chromosomal thing. Yeah. And how you see colors aside from colorblindness, but it also started making me think about, aside from that, just in general, like everything that you perceive in life, where, like, if we’re both listening to the same song, do you hear the song the same way that I hear this? No,

Stephie
I already have enough trouble with like, because you’re like, when I am talking. My voice sounds different to me as I am talking than it sounds to you as I as you were listening to me, I already have enough problems with that whole thing. And that’s like an easy thing to wrap your mind around as to why that happens. But the rest of like, too much too much. My my brain is too small cannot handle.

Megan
You have to have a have. You guys can have a good long conversation about that.

Stephie
Hi, just I Oh, dear.

Megan
He didn’t like he didn’t like listening to the podcast episode because his voice sounds so different to him.

Stephie
Oh, well. Yeah. Welcome to listening to yourself. Right talk. It’s a very strange Yeah. It’s very, very strange. That and like I said, that is easy enough to wrap your mind around in terms of why. But yeah, thinking about the fact that like, everything else, just everything every thing. too hard. Nope.

Megan
I mean, could we get into then how you look in a mirror is completely different than how you look when you take a picture of yourself? I mean,

Stephie
yeah, like, What?

Megan
How? Taking a picture of yourself is basically a mirror. And but it looks different. And yet,

Stephie
and yet, you’re like, Oh, that’s how people see me. If you look at the goddamn mirror, that’s also how people see you. And yet, like, oh, man, okay, well, in case anyone else needed to just like, have their minds blown a tiny little bit. You’re welcome. please message me so we can anxiety spiral about this together. Thank you very much.

Megan
We’ve got 99 problems. Yeah.

Stephie
So we’ve talked before about the often harmful effects of religion and how religion and faith don’t necessarily go hand in hand.

Megan
Today, we’re going a bit further into this idea by unpacking the concept of deconstruction. To do so we’re joined again by a friend of the pod, Andie Coston. Welcome, Andie.

Stephie
Hi. Andie. Did we blow your mind thinking about colors?

Andie
I am having flashbacks. I have anxiety now. I’m not going to sleep. This is something that I have legitimately thought about before. And it too has kept me I’ve spent like hours googling?

Stephie
Yeah, it’s fair. Uh huh. Yep. So you’re welcome for your tonight’s anxiety spiral. But it’s been a while. So it’s been a while since you were last on the podcast? Yeah. What’s new with you since then?

Andie
A lot. A lot. Um, so the last time I was on, we talked about the inia gram. Yes. And I think one of the most important things that has changed in my life is that I have changed my enneagram number.

More.

So you know, we talked a lot about how I the least amount of research that I’ve done is on the inia gram five. And so after the podcast, I like deep dove into back into the inia gram through all of the numbers. And so I have the theory that when you start working through your trauma, you can not necessarily change your enneagram. But different aspects of your personality don’t become as prominent, and other aspects become more prominent. And so I was a four. And I truly think that I’m a five wing for now. So I just thought I’d share that very big update that I know your listeners have just been, you know, dying to know, which also

Stephie
explains why you have googled extensively the whole shebang, simply enneagram five. Right. Well, sir Darkseid Dun, dun dun. Well, last week, Megan was talking about this is also a group texts that she saw something about, like there was an accident in a grain at a grain silo and someone died. And that apparently, like if this happens, like you have a 45% chance of dying, and she’s like, of course, like, glommed on to that fact. So

Andie
I know all about it. I know you are not supposed to move if you are in grain, see, oh my god.

Stephie
This is trouble.

Andie
I grew up in farm country. This is like, we are taught this even we don’t I never grew up on a farm. I had friends who had farms. They didn’t have silos though. They had cows. But we were like, if you’re in a silo job move.

Megan
But also Okay, I have a question. Okay. So if you are going into a silo because you have to fix whatever, right like, Don’t you have like a person?

Andie
Like, do you don’t go in alone? No, you’re not supposed to you’re supposed to be harnessed. You know, back in the olden day, it was just a rope. But now they have harnesses, now they have like special shoes that look like, like snow shoes. So because you know, it’s like quicksand. Like, if you have a wider base, then you’re less likely to sink. Right?

Megan
So yeah, those things make sense. I don’t know if the person had all these things. But these are logical solutions to me that right?

Andie
Yeah. Because, you know, being a five we also have a wing of a six. We got to think about safety people.

Megan
Also, don’t go into a grain silo. too heavy. No. Don’t do it.

Stephie
There you go. You guys, all of the things that you didn’t know you needed to be anxious about. We are your one stop shop for anxiety. So in addition, you have also moved since we last talked to

Andie
you. Yes. Just about a month ago, we moved from rural Northern Michigan. And when I mean rural, I mean, we had one stoplight. Yeah, it was close quarters. And we moved to the Charlotte, North Carolina area, which is you know, like 800,000 people so I love going to the grocery store and not knowing anybody. And also having like a better selection of things to choose from. Oh, yeah. Especially friends.

Stephie
I’m gonna go to the grocery store and pick up some friends. Yeah, see you later.

Andie
I have this one new friend and like we have never met we she got my phone number off my kids class list and was texting me about a birthday party and now she thinks we’re like BFF after like a week. Love it. Yeah. Should we she like text me every day like, sends me you know, gifs. Jiffs however you want to pronounce it. I’m like, this is my kind of friendship.

Stephie
Your love language.

Andie
This is my love language because I am an extroverted introvert. So I love talking to people, but I don’t want to be in their presence. Yeah, that

Stephie
sounds about right. Well, that is extremely exciting. I’ve been enjoying following along with your new adventures on Instagram stories and your new new town ad. Winter is going to be a whole new, exciting time for you.

Andie
I’m so exciting. I’ve already North Yeah, right. I’ve already when people find out from Michigan that I’m from Michigan, the first thing they say is Oh, you’re gonna hate us in the winter.

Stephie
Yeah, there’ll be one snowflake and everything will

Andie
shut down. Yeah. And I think I’m going to capitalize on this because you know, capitalism. I think that I’m going to start a business where when everything shuts down, I’ll get your groceries for you. Perfect. Yeah. Like I’ll boatload of money. I’ll be the only one out there.

Stephie
You will be the only instacart driver because everyone else would be like it’s too scary.

Andie
It’s too scary. And I’ll be out there in my you know, suburban. Just One, two and 360s in the parking lot.

Stephie
I think I think Meghan experienced that probably when she moved from Minnesota down to Texas. Oh, yeah, no,

Megan
there. Oh, yeah. I mean, when, when it would snow, people would just like, lose their minds. And then I was just go to work like normal. Well, because we didn’t like it didn’t count as a day off, you know, because corporate and no one would be there. It’d be great. Love that. Oh, man. All right.

Stephie
So before we get too far into our the actual topic of conversation, Andy, can you define what deconstruction actually is with regards to religion and Christianity? Oh, boy. Um,

Andie
so it’s actually interesting to define deconstruction in general. And if you are on the interwebs, and you and you Google it, there are so many people have so many opinions on what deconstruction is, and you can deconstruct anything. But the way I define it is deconstruction is like a stepping back. So you feel like you’ve already arrived somewhere. And then you start stepping back, peeling back layers, you know, if you want to imagine like a wall, you’ve already built your wall and you start, you know, taking it down brick by brick. To find out, you know, it’s kind of like an unlearning to find out. Why is the foundation the way it is? Why, how did I get here? In my journey, and it’s kind of a combination of an unlearning and relearning and D learning all at once. You can’t just unlearn because then you have to relearn something to take its place. So yeah, it’s it’s so complicated. I love listening to people discuss the definition of deconstruction. Because there’s no finite answer. It’s, it’s whatever anyone really wants it to be, however it works for you in your life.

Megan
Can you share a little bit about your religious background?

Andie
So I was raised Christian reformed. I’m like super Christian reformed. The the family that I grew up in is connected very deeply with one of the main Christian reformed universities. So much so that my uncle was the president at one point of this university. So I wasn’t just a little bit Christian reformed, I was very Christian reformed.

Stephie
Can you define what that a Christian reformed means?

Andie
We’re Calvinist. Okay. So, um, Calvinists is the there’s there’s Calvinism. And then there’s arminianism. And Calvinism is everything is pre faded. You have free will, but you’re destined. Sure, that makes sense. total sense. total sense.

Stephie
All that also means you’re super Dutch,

Andie
super Dutch, super Dutch. My parents are both 100% Dutch, and they are third generation coming to this country, so like their three generations being in America, and they’re still 100% Dutch. That’s incredible. Yeah. Right. Like that’s, you marry a Dutch person. I mean, they went to they went to Calvin College. So it was, you know, 99.9% Dutch people. And my mom went to get her Mrs. degree and succeeded. So there’s that. Um, yeah, so they’re super Dutch, which is funny, because I’m actually adopted. And for the longest time, my biological family said that I was Irish and German. And I did a DNA test. And I found out that I’m 25%, Dutch and my. My parents were so excited. That’s funny. Yeah, I did when I told them like, most of my DNA actually links back to being a Viking and my dad thought that was funny because he goes, that’s, that explains a lot about your personality. But then I said, but I am 25% Dutch and my mom, it was like, I’d been resaved.

She was like, that’s the best news I’ve ever heard. I was like, I’ve given you four grandchildren. And that’s the best news I’ve ever heard.

Stephie
Yeah, no. Parents, right. So anyway, so you are Calvinists? Well, I

Andie
was I was I grew up Calvinist. Yeah, yes. Yeah.

Stephie
It was interesting. So you so you, obviously you grew up going to church, all You know, weekly, probably multiple times

Andie
a week. Yeah. Once on Wednesday, twice on Sundays and anything that was offered in between. Yeah, what?

Stephie
Yeah, that sounds about right. Yeah. Yeah. I grew up evangelical, Pentecostal, evangelical. So

Andie
that’s about right. We have Pentecostals and in Calvinists, the CRA we have the same schedule, except we don’t believe in speaking in tongues. So, if you even try your cast out,

Stephie
I actually one of my one of our friends, Caleb, who grew up in church with me, he’s been on the pod a couple of times, he sent me a tech talk last night from a guy who is talking about how he has since left the church, but he was talking about how he grew up at a church where they spoke in tongues. And so one day, he’s like, I just knew I was gonna do it. And I just said, shovel a Hummer. started to say, you shovel a Hummer? Jesus, Allah. Oh, my gosh, I know what Tick Tock you’re talking about. I follow him. He’s so so funny. Very, very funny. So okay, so you grew up super religious. In this church, going to church multiple times a week, like in church, religion is a big deal for you. At what point did you begin your deconstruction process? And did you even realize that’s what was happening at the time?

Andie
Oh, boy, um, I think it was probably around the same time that I went through. I guess I was probably 34. And I’m 29 now. So just a couple years ago, I started going to intense trauma therapy. And it all started with I was having symptoms of PTSD. And my husband basically said, you need to get in therapy, or we’re going to have some issues. Especially because I’m the primary caregiver for our children. He’s like, you’re not going to pass this on, you got to deal with your shed. Um, so I did, mostly because, you know, like, what, what else am I gonna do? fair wage. So I started going to therapy, I was going multiple times a week, it was all, you know, specifically rated related to my symptoms, my PTSD symptoms, which stemmed from trauma as a child being adopted. And as I started to come out of the what we label the adoptee fog, which btw is just a fancy name for deconstruction of adoption in your life. Oh, there it is. So as I started to deconstruct my adoption story, my adoption story is with like a lot of adoptees, very intertwined with our faith. And that has to do with the church, teaching our parents that the best way to, you know, save people or continue Christianity or to help the orphans and the widows is to adopt children. So, yeah, that’s where it all started. I take it I didn’t even realize I was deconstructing my faith. I think it just was, you know, like I said earlier, in my definition, it was a walk back, I started with my trauma symptoms, PTSD symptoms, then, you know, adoption, fog, and then I started connecting those dots between my faith and how that affected my trauma, my childhood trauma.

Megan
So what has deconstruction looked for? You looked like for you, personally,

Andie
a lot of time scrolling through Instagram. At 2am, when I’m worried about my voice sounding different, or my colors love colors, yeah, that’s, that’s kind of where it started, honestly, because Instagram, especially last year, was a huge way that I could connect to people, you know, again, it started with an adoption community. I was able to connect with an adoption community and through that started, you know, learning things. You know, I learned more about racism, I learned more about, you know, deconstruction through that community. And they kind of pointed me towards the way like, you know, head over to this account, you’ll find this interesting head over to that account, you’ll find this interesting. So that’s truly like where I started. deconstructing seriously was reading other people’s stuff. stories of how they’ve deconstructed listening to other adoptees who were also raised in evangelical families, and who, you know, either have deconstructed their faith or walked away from faith completely. So I kind of just hopped on other people’s trains for the ride, and have just learned so much from the people who have already done this.

Megan
Do you worry at all that by and it’s not like a commentary on you personally or anything, but by I guess, leaning so heavily on other people’s learnings and sharings, that that might be a coloring your personal views and deconstruction thoughts about the whole thing,

Andie
it’s an it’s a valid concern. And in the deconstruction community, we actually talk about that a lot that we need to make sure we’re not consuming one specific area. You know, just like, when you go to college, you study a broad array of subjects. And from, you know, for me being an integral in five, it has been my intent that I make sure that I am listening to voices that are varied, and ones that I even disagree with, so that I can be you know, weighing all options and throwing around different ideas in my head at all times. And, and that’s been interesting, too, because I, you know, will one day think one way about something and then be introduced to an idea that I completely disagree with? And a week later, I’m like, Oh, I totally agree with that now. So it is something, you know, in any area of growth to be to be aware of, in the community, we do talk about that. And by the community, there’s not like, a specific group of us. It’s just, you know, the broad, whoever is out there community, whoever is involved in the discussion. Yeah,

Stephie
I think it’s interesting, because, like, I didn’t have a word for this until like, though, in the last year, when, like, I saw you sharing some things and some other folks that we know, we’re sharing some things and I realized, like, for me, I’ve been going through this process for probably years now. And so it’s been interesting to kind of follow this, like deconstruction, on tik tok a lot of times on Instagram as well, sometimes they call them the exvangelical. Yep. Community. because it gave me a word for what I had been mentally kind of just noodling over by myself for a really long time. And, and I think it’s interesting that you talk about like this last year, in particular, sort of throwing a bright spotlight on the harm that the church has done. And like really sort of throwing this deconstruction process almost into overdrive.

Andie
Yeah, I, you guys are absolutely gonna love this imagery that I’m about to bestow upon you. 2020 to me, was like, and fast and furious when they hit the red button. The nos gas goes through, you know, in like, the first movie they showed you like it was, you know, CGI was new. So it shows you the gas, you know, or whatever, going through all the lines and hits the engine and it like, you know, suddenly they’re going 250 miles an hour downtown. I don’t know, Detroit. So that’s what I think of is that like, 2020 was like this huge, you know, I don’t know, explosion and revealing of, of the harm that the church Not only is doing but has done. And so I think for a lot of us who were kind of on the edge already. It was a huge, like, push off the cliff.

Stephie
Yeah. Yeah,

Megan
I would just say I have no idea what you’re talking about, because I have never seen them. But I would. I would like to add, though, that I think for I think in 2020 that that is that analogy, and that concept is super applicable to like, almost everything for sure. Because you met you’re talking about the church, but I’m thinking about like our jobs. We kind of just like no, blow this up. capitalism and

Stephie
everything. Yeah, a lot of people were just tired. I mean, yeah, really come Yeah, like waking up to white supremacy and Their own white privilege that maybe they hadn’t thought about before. Yeah, I think that I think that the last like year and a half has just been a big deconstruction process for a lot of us and a lot of different areas. For sure.

Andie
It’s, it’s the whole Wizard of Oz, don’t look at the man behind the curtain. And the curtain has been, like, ripped down if we want to talk about curtains, ripping and faith.

Stephie
Yes. Okay. So I do, I do want to talk about the difference between faith and the church, because we’ve talked about this on the podcast before, there is a big difference between those things. And so I would love to hear you talk about how your deconstruction has affected your faith and how you’ve separated that from like, church rituals, the like, larger church community, like all of that stuff.

Andie
So growing up, again, in a Calvinist, you know, CRC home, Calvinists, Dutch CRC home, the church, my faith, family was all combined, it was all one. And so separating those is extremely difficult. And I know there are other, you know, different ethnicities, different races different. Oh, shoot, I just lost the word, denominations. There we go. There’s, there’s all these different combinations. I know, I’m not the only one who experiences this. These three are so combined, and so woven together, that it was extremely difficult to separate them. And I was taught growing up that the church is my family, I was taught growing up that, you know, my faith is the church. So understanding that my faith, my spirituality, how I view, you know, God, the earth, the people around me is completely different from the church, which is an organization. And that’s difficult to separate, because in the Bible, it calls, you know, it says the church, and it refers to a group of people. And so it’s very difficult to deconstruct that, because how do you take that from the Bible’s interpretation of the church, which is the people to today, which is a religious organization, and, and for me, it was the realization that when Jesus came, and he tried to separate the church, the people from the religious organization, it didn’t happen. We just took Jesus and inserted it inserted him into the religious organization, we didn’t make that separation. And so the deconstruction is, each generation since has had groups of people deconstruction isn’t new. I mean, we can go back to the 60s and talk about hippies, like they were they were some pretty hardcore deconstructionist. And so it’s that separating of the organization, the capitalism from the faith, the people, the community, and then take it another step from your family. Because family is so integral to many faiths. And you’re taught that if you leave your family, you leave your faith, or if you leave your faith, you’re going to have to leave your family. And it’s incredibly difficult to separate those all at once.

Stephie
Um, before we go on to our next question, I want to actually touch on this like that the organization is family because Megan and I were talking about this a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about how a lot of like jobs will say like, oh, we’re a big family. But families don’t turn their back on like it’s used to Gaslight you. Yeah. 100% and I think that that’s a Yeah, it’s it. This is beware of organizations that tell you like we’re all a big family because what families don’t, families should not just turn their backs on people, right and, like, use you and abuse you. So like, beware, beware the gas lighting.

Andie
It’s It’s so it’s getting old gas lighting and the whole family aspect is such a white supremacist idea. And it’s such a narcissistic idea, you know, this idea that we are family so I’m going to use an abuse you like where did that come from seriously, because it is gaslighting and it Is traumatizing when you’re told, you know, on all levels of this deconstruction, your churches, your family, your faith is your family, your family is your family. Well, all three of those, you know, my faith by my church, my family have harmed me in some way. So we have to even deconstruct the idea of what is family. And this is how layer deconstruction can get. Because you’re not just deconstructing your faith or your religion, you’re deconstructing so many ideas at once, because white supremacy is directly tied to the Christian evangelical faith, which is directly tied to you know, narcissism and abuse in the church and, you know, on and on and on and on.

Megan
So how has this deconstruction impacted affected your family relationships?

Andie
It’s complicated. So well, first of all, I have like 8 million families. So it is affected, you know, and I handle it differently with each one you know, my my family here in my home that is currently all sleeping. Praise be Thank you, melatonin. Mama set a meeting here, take this pill.

Stephie
We’d love a melatonin gummy.

Andie
Yes. And then the baby tries to you like six of them? Yeah. Um, so within my own family, with between my marriage, let’s go there. Like it was really difficult. At first, it was very rocky because we built our marriage in the Evangelical Church. Now granted, my husband and I were both the black sheep of the family. Like the fact that my husband, it got married, his family was just rejoicing.

Stephie
Finally, we got Yeah. Did they took their data, you know, take backs?

Andie
Yeah, yeah, it was quite, it’s quite humorous. Because my husband and I, I think I told you this on the last podcast, my husband and I dated, broke up for four years and then got back together and got married. While he was such a black sheep, by the time that I came back around a good Christian girl, it was I can do anything like I could murder somebody in my in laws would be like, Oh, my God, you’re so perfect.

Stephie
It’s fine. It’s fine.

Andie
It’s fine. You probably was probably justified. Yeah. So you know, in my marriage, it was a little rocky because it really meant we had built so much of our own marriage on how a marriage should look in the Evangelical Church. very traditional roles. He goes to work, I stay home, I do deal with the kids on the private primary caregiver, I cook, I clean, you know, he fixes the cars it was. So I mean, it’s just so traditional. And so kind of the deconstruction in our marriage is a more fluid interpretation of roles. And the understanding that, hey, I’m going to have a career and you’re going to have to pick up the slack buddy. And for you know, it’s it’s been a more evening out. And it’s been a very painful, slow process. And it’s still going on, there’s been some incredibly difficult moments in our marriage. Where we, you know, one time we legitimately were on the verge of divorce and separating. Because it’s, it’s so painful, because you don’t do it at the same time. You don’t do it in the same steps. One person moves forward and the other person has to catch up and then that person moves forward, and then you have to catch up.

So,

in my marriage has been really difficult. Thankfully, we are so dedicated to each other mostly because everybody said we were gonna get divorced. So we’re like, we’re gonna prove them wrong. So yeah, we’re we’ve been married for 14 years, and next year, we will have been married the longest out of his family, and I’m like, I am so excited to rub it in everybody’s faces.

Stephie
This is what happens when enneagram one and an enneagram five get married.

Andie
Oh, it’s terrible. We just sit on our little mountain of superiority and look down on everyone else. Man, and they are like, you’re wrong. And we’re like, we’ll get back to you. Um, yeah, so you know, in my family, it’s been it’s been difficult it. It truly has been one in my in one of my biological families. I’m no longer speaking to that side of the family. Because they cannot accept. They cannot move past their way of thinking and another biological family. We just don’t talk about it and we’re fine. Which, which works for us. And then in, you know, my adoptive family. I think there’s this level of, we have seen you grow as a person, we’ve been with you every single step of the way, we see how you are successful in the fact that I’ve been married, I’m raising kids. You know, I have a stable home, I look stable, I appear stable. So whatever is going on with you with your faith, it’s fine. However, by a few of my family members, including my mother, will randomly send like, super ultra conservative magazines or books, children’s books or children’s devotionals. Like they clearly think that I’m lacking in this area. So subtle guy, very subtle, very subtle. We’ve sent you a year subscription to clubhouse Jr. From Focus on the Family. Okay. Great. Thanks. Thanks. See what you’re doing there? Oh, nice try.

Stephie
Oh, man, how has it so with your kids? Um, how has that how has it affected how you talk about faith, and Jesus and God with your kids?

Andie
Um, it’s definitely changed. You know, we used to go to church, religiously, they used to go to Sunday school. Um, so most of them, you know, know the basics, the Sunday school basics, you know, oh, no, and the ark, those kinds of things. They do go to a Christian summer camp. So, there there is this aspect that religion and faith is part of our lives, we, we believe in God, we believe in Jesus. However, the way I want my children to learn about Christianity, and Jesus and God is completely different than it’s taught in the church currently. So it means that I have to do a lot more, you know, work on my end, to specifically address, you know, teaching my children about God teaching my children about faith, it’s become more one on one conversations.

Stephie
Um, you can’t just show them off to Sunday school every Sunday morning, right? And have the work done for you. Exactly.

Andie
Yeah. It’s, it’s, you know, it’s not like school, where I can send them in they, they get the basics, and, you know, I mean, even with school, I still have to do work, because, you know, it’s a whitewashed education. That’s a whole nother podcast. But um, it’s, it’s the same with church, where if my family, you know, if we choose to go back to church, after the pandemic, and if we find a church that we feel safe in, like, even then I feel I’m going to have to do some work. And and it’s, it sounds, I’m making it sound harder than it really is. Because these conversations come up so easily. When you have kids. You know, they they talk about, like, the other day, my son came home, and they had a project at school. And one of the options was, you, you write down about yourself, and you write down one of the questions was, what’s your gender? And so that conversation came up so easily, because it was a conversation of how does God see people? And what does it mean, when God said, love everyone. And you know, we get out the Bible, and we talk about the Bible, and we talk about Bible verses. But we just look at them so differently than the usual Evangelical Church. So I was able to have a conversation with my child about God and faith and loving other people, and gender all at the same time. But it happens so easily with kids, because they’re honestly searching for these answers.

Stephie
Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. So what advice would you give to someone who is in the process of evaluating their relationship with God in the church,

Andie
go slow. There are so much to tackle and it’s so heavy, because your faith and your spirituality, your church, your family, it’s a part of who you are. And when you start deconstructing that taking yourself you’re literally taking yourself apart. And you have to take yourself apart while you put other pieces back together so that you can not crumble. So your foundation doesn’t give away and it’s, it’s so painful some days, and it’s so good. Some other days when you discover something new when you have an aha moment and it’s healing. Those are the good days, but it’s just I think some of us in 2020 went through, it’s so fast that we’re still like bleeding out. So my, my biggest thing when people ask me about deconstruction is just go slow and stick with when you’re just starting out, stick with the basics. Stick with a few people who are trustworthy. If you can find a mentor who’s already done it before.

Stephie
Yeah. Right. I think that it’s been interesting to like, watch certain, like Christian influencers, like kind of going through this process in real time.

Andie
Yeah. especially ones who have been a huge part of the Evangelical Church for so long.

Stephie
Yeah, Jen hatmaker comes to mind. Glennon Doyle comes to mind like that. They were so big in the evangelical church community and like big names. And when they started these processes, like they were, I mean, obviously, they were influencers. And so they were sort of doing it publicly and having the church tell them like, you are no longer welcome to speak at our conferences, and like, all of these things. And it’s been interesting, because I’ve sort of been watching them, a lot of them go through this, at the same time that I’m working through a lot of these things. So it is, it’s It is interesting to like, because I do think that they were those two in particular, were sort of like, the first ones that I was really watching and kind of go through this and then started to like, follow some more people. And then I got on tik tok. And now I’m deep in the rabbit. You’re deep and deep in my nose is like, I think she used to be evangelical. Yeah, was put her in the xv angelical Tiktok. Like, Oh, my God, this stuff. So yeah, I like that. That goes going slow advice, because I really do think that I’ve been processing a lot of this, really since I started college. And so you know, it’s really been since I was 18 19 20 years old, that I really kind of started to ask myself some bigger questions about some of the things that I had been taught and taught that I wasn’t supposed to question. And realizing that my whole life, I’ve been asking questions that no one wanted me to ask. And so I was told to stop asking the questions. And now as an adult, I’m like, coming back to them and be like, Yo, I was like, told I really shouldn’t ask that question. But that’s a really good question to be asking. So. Um, so I mean, yeah, for me, it’s been like 10 12 14 15 years, and I’m still figuring it out. So like, it’s it’s not an overnight thing. No,

Andie
it’s definitely lifelong. I have a funny story, you know, going back to college. This is, this is probably when I first realized that I wasn’t gonna grow up and be Calvinist, we had this class, I went to my first year of college, I went to Calvin College, because that’s what you did in my family. And so we had this freshman class, and it was all you know, like, it was supposed to be like an introduction class. You know, every college has like a freshman class that everybody has to take, and this was it. And I got into an argument with a professor about freewill. And I got kicked out of class. Like, my uncle was the president at the time I went there, he got a call from the professor. And then I got a call from my grandmother. Oh, shit. He was bad news. But yeah, like, it’s lifelong. And I think that you can never really arrive, I think, because as we grow, and we learn new things about ourselves, and we enter into new periods of life, I mean, especially like having kids, suddenly, you’re responsible for something and you don’t want to mess it up. So you start questioning everything. So I think there’s this you know, go slow applies to, it’s really a lifelong journey.

Stephie
Yeah, having becoming a parent has definitely, like, made me think about it a whole new way. Because I think about like, how do I want to teach her to love like the Jesus that I know and not love the way that the church love and quotation marks the way that the church pretends to? And how do I how do I teach her about those things and about the nuance of those things as she gets older and like, all of that stuff, and she’s 18 months old, like we’re not teaching her nuance of diddly shit at this point. Like, it’s still like question in my mind, like, how do I approach that as she gets older? So? Yeah, I don’t think it’ll ever be. I think you’re right. There’s no arrival. It’s just an ongoing journey in case that makes anyone less anxious.

Andie
And back to the anxiety I talked about earlier. I think you could just take 2020 and just put that as an example of like, what not to do as a Christian?

Stephie
Yeah, that’s honestly, honestly, our history books are writing it for us. Yeah. Yeah.

Andie
I think when we start actually, like, when my kids are 18, we’re starting to get into serious conversation and be like, let me tell you about the pandemic.

Stephie
Right, because you’re gonna be like, Look, you lived through it, but like, let’s talk about it. from a new perspective. It’s been 10 years. Right. Right.

Megan
Do you have any resources that have been helpful for you, aside from social media, continue to re examine your belief systems?

Unknown Speaker
You know, there’s been you know, Stephanie, Stephie mentioned. People like jen hatmaker, they’re more recent books she’s written. One other person that’s been really helpful for me is, is Beth Moore, who recently renounced the Baptist denomination. She was like a big deal. Her more recent devotionals have been so revealing. Yeah, that’s, that’s where I’m at is just kind of following the lead of these women who’ve gone before me. Hoping that those who are on social media one day write books, so that I can continue to learn from them in a more, you know, research type banner.

Stephie
That’s amazing. Thank you so much for being here and talking this through with us today. So let’s, let’s wrap up the week with joy. We’ve we’ve talked about a lot of anxiety related things. So let’s, let’s pivot a little bit there.

What’s bringing us joy?

Unknown Speaker
That is bringing your joy this week, Andie. Um, so one of my Instagram followers sent me this link last week to this thing called the sleep hug. Have you heard of it? Tell us. It’s literally stretchy material that’s sewn into like a noodle pod like shape. And you crawl into it. And it’s super, it’s not like tight where you want to feel like you’re going to die, but it’s more like a nice hug. It’s like the Snuggie but snug here. So I ordered one. And I got one for my son actually. He’s nearly neurodivergent. And he slept in it for the last like four nights. And it’s the coolest thing. I’ve been walking around my house at nighttime. It’s literally like a noodle of fabric that just is stretchy.

Stephie
Like it’s not like a pocket so you can stick your feet out. Yeah, on your feet. Yeah. Oh, they were just like, a genius. Like, someone really thought this through it like okay, you’re in your like, little sleeping pod, but then you get hot and you need to stick your feet out of the covers. We’ll just make a little pocket so you can stick your feet out

Andie
right or shuffle around the house to get your midnight cheese. So, but they failed. I’m actually writing into the company because there’s no pocket in it. Like how the heck am I? Yeah, how am I supposed to carry my phone or my chunk my block of cheese and

Stephie
they were just they were just really under estimating the need for the night cheese. Right.

Unknown Speaker
So I actually think I might sew my own pocket in pocket cheese bag it this thing is it’s it sounds so silly. It sounds so stupid. It’s totally it was on Shark Tank. Like that’s how you know.

Stephie
That’s how you know.

Andie
Yeah, anyway, but I love it. And all my kids want one.

Stephie
So you shared it on Instagram and I was like, okay, but imagine that and then a weighted blanket on like,

Unknown Speaker
I feel cozy just thinking about it. Yeah, it’s so I when I ordered that I’m like, this is gonna be dumb. This isn’t gonna do anything for me like, but honestly my like buy followers paid for it specifically. So I’m like, I’m gonna honor them and their money and not spend it on cheese and actually buy this thing. And I love it. Like I at nighttime. I bring it up around my neck and it like holds my arm. I feel like a little baby in the womb. And there’s also another benefit. My husband Can’t get to me when I’m sleeping. Like his hand reaches over and like I’m in my I’m in my pod. Leave me alone. I’m unreachable. Goodbye. Yeah, get through this sucker. But you can get a bra off. But can you get this off? Oh my God, that’s amazing.

Megan
I feel like it i don’t know i I’m conflicted because I feel like I might like it. But I also feel like I

Andie
might feel very trapped. See, that’s how that’s exactly what I thought when I ordered it. But the saving grace is the fact that on you can flip your feet out.

Stephie
Yeah, I could see that.

Andie
Yeah, like, once my feet are free. I’m like, Oh, this is fine. Now when I’m sitting on the couch watching a movie, I would my want my toes to be covered that I feel cozy. But like it’s not tight enough where you feel like, you know, your kids sitting on top of you. And this is the end of the world.

Megan
Because when I when I got my weighted blanket, like the first couple of times sleeping with it, like I definitely felt like it was gonna die.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah. I’m used to it now. But it even says on the card that comes with it. Please allow seven to 10 nights of acclamation to sleeping in the pod.

Stephie
So many nights. The whole week of night.

Megan
The whole week of possibly not sleeping.

Stephie
Oh my goodness. Yeah, I gotta check this out. Because

Andie
it sounds great. It’s a good time. So that’s what’s bringing me joy this week is my sleep pod. Okay, wait, wait, what’s

Stephie
it really called? Again?

Andie
It’s like the hug asleep. You can get it on Amazon. They have a website, but it’s cheaper on Amazon.

Stephie
Yeah. And they do they call it a sleep pod.

Andie
Yeah. But the brand is hugg sleep and they call it the sleep pod.

Stephie
Yeah. Amazing. We’ll link to it in the

Andie
show notes. Guys. Awesome. Okay, in case anyone wants one, it reminds me of I’m gonna date myself. They honestly remind me of the movie cocoon.

I watched that at like four years old and was traumatized. And, but that’s all I can think of. I also got to like this because like,

Stephie
a lot of times I throw my blankets off in the middle of the night. And then I like immediately wake up and I’m like, my blankets. You can’t throw it off.

Andie
No, you’re stuck. But in like a good way like my son

Stephie
in a way that your spouse can’t hug the blankets. Yeah,

Andie
exactly. Like it’s on. There’s nowhere it’s going. Your spouse cannot fit in this with you. There’s no there’s no double pod. This is a one person only pod. You can get a double hammock. You can get a double sleeping bag. You cannot get a double pod.

Stephie
Oh my god. Amazing. That might be the best thing about it,

Andie
though. I might try now just for Instagram. laughs

Stephie
see how many of your kids you can fit? Yeah, it’s happening. Amazing. Stephie What’s bringing you joy. So I discovered that Lego has some like really dope ass LEGO sets on their website. And like I kind of want to be a Lego adult now. They have like this like flower bouquet. That is so cute. They have like a bird of paradise plant. like they’ve got some cute shit guys, hold on. I’m on my phone. I’m gonna look it up right now. There. It’s so cute. And I really really want one of these sets now. Nice to have like, they also have a number of like, you know, cool like villages and like, like Harry Potter themed stuff and like other fandom stuff, but for just the flower bouquet is really pretty and cute all at the same time. They have a Christmas wreath. Yes, they’ve got some really cute stuff. So I mean, you can also get the Coliseum for the low low price of $549.99. That’s what I paid to see the actual Coliseum. Well, for that you can build one with Legos and keep it in your house. I just parently if I really wanted my husband to leave me I would get him the Manchester United arena. He would straight up straight up get up and walk out of the house and never come back. So that’s the equivalent of your sleep pod. Yes. Apparently so I’ve got my they also have a bonsai tree and you can like switch it out with like the green leaves or the little flowers and the little pink flowers or actually tiny little frogs. It’s pretty cute. So I yeah, I’ve got my eye on these cute like

Andie
I’m just like on my phone right now. So excited. See Right. I’m so this is so I my I have my brother who’s 55 I have his original like Legos. So we grew up on Legos and I’m so excited. I’m looking at Legos that are like now designed for me as an adult,

Stephie
right like these are absolutely designed for adults to make them. Oh, this one lights up well, we know the rabbit hole the Andie will be going down tonight.

Megan
Well, they totally count on the fact that it’s it’s the same thing with you know, like Harry Potter stuff at Pottery Barn, counting on the fact that all of us who grew up with Legos now have disposable money, right? Yes. Right. We have a

Stephie
we had parents who were like, I’m not gonna pay for that. I’m not buying you that. And now we can buy it for ourselves. Because why not?

Andie
I think the worst part out is finding the worst part, though, is finding out that your parents could pay for it. Right? They got they totally could have my parents like, yeah, my parents told me what my inheritance was. And my first reaction was What the hell? I could have had so many ponies

Stephie
what a ripoff.

Andie
I feel so deep. We went secondhand store shopping that seriously? Like I had so many Legos that light up.

Stephie
Oh man, Megan, what’s bringing you joy?

Megan
Well, it’s not Legos because I have 1000s of them in my basement. Doing nothing. Um, I started taking walks in the morning. Oh, nice. Sounds like kind of not exciting, but it’s been really nice to go in the morning after the right after the kids leave for school. And before I start working, and it has just been like a nice, I guess sort of like a reset for the day, I think and I catch up on my podcasts and that’s so

Stephie
nice. Okay, I have to take that rabbit trail for just a second though. Because that reminded me of the conversation that you and I were having with a friend Susannah yesterday about like apparently Andie Have you heard of this? Apparently there’s like a group of people like they’re millennials but they do like grandma things and so they call themselves grandmillennials and apparently a big thing is wearing nap dresses. Oh,

Megan
these are my people. Oh, I thought I thought you were gonna say that me taking walks was a grandma thing. Well,

Stephie
because you were sort of going on this like what cuz I’m like what? You’re so close. When is she gonna do in the winter? Is she gonna have to go mall walking because it’d be too cold and then that led my brain This is how the ADHD brains work guys this I went from she’s taking a nice walk in the morning to mall walking to issue grandma to Grand millennials to nap dresses. Which really just looked like dresses. I’m very confused. Apparently it’s a very southern thing. So Andie now that you live in the south apparently you have to buy a nap dress.

Andie
Well my nickname in college was grandma so

Stephie
apparently you need to buy a nap dress I’m find all the ways that you can style it even though it does not look like it would actually be comfortable for napping. It just looks like a dress. I can’t

Andie
I can’t wear anything that’s a dress or a night gown it ends up like around my throat

Megan
Well, I mean these things they’re called Nap dresses for whatever reason, but they’re like basically the same like sundresses that had the weird like rouching kinda they got like the smocking situation Yeah, the smocking their little

Andie
their little little house. They’ve got some Little House on the Prairie vibes. Oh, like the dress I wore the other day. That’s an app dress the one the one that I’m going to tie dye Stephie Oh,

Stephie
well Yeah, a little bit but these are these are that one actually like could be styled cute. These I don’t I don’t have any hope for

Megan
I just don’t see anything like it’s like it’s gathered under your boobs like that could be comfortable for sleeping.

Stephie
Yeah, it’s not like like i right now I am wearing a knit like t shirt material like maxi dress. That is a that that is this is comfortable enough. I can sleep at it. Like it looks fine. I can pull it off as like a real outfit. But I could I could sleep in it if I wanted. This is like cotton material that like would get wrinkled and look rumbled if you did take a nap in it. So I just have a lot of questions that I don’t think the internet is prepared to answer for me. Hill House home is like the rear. That’s what Mrs. Tm Yeah, they apparently have trademarked the nap dress. It’s weird.

Unknown Speaker
I don’t know. I got I got a question. Okay, so Stephanie’s got Legos. I have my hug sleep pod and you have the the Hill House nap dressed and these the new question is how to keep your husband’s at bay.

Stephie
Come to us for more pro tips. Marriage hacks. Don’t want to have sex we got you.

Megan
I do think it’s funny though, because every time we were looking at these nap dresses, and a lot of the pictures that I saw of them are apparently it’s the kind of dress where like, you can either have the sleeves up or the sleeves down. Like do you want to cover your shoulders? Or do you want bare shoulders like now? No. I don’t like a convertible shoulder dry.

Stephie
I want to just know what my shoulder should be doing the dress.

Unknown Speaker
Well, isn’t that such an enneargram five thing we need to know the expectations ahead of time. We don’t can’t change well, so give me a trust that the sleeves are going to change on me halfway through the day.

Megan
Exactly. like are they? Is it because anything that’s made like that you can either have them up or down you know, they’re not going to stay upright.

Andie
You’ll have to get them to stay up. You’ll have to get those those like bracelets that our moms used to wear in the 80s that were like gold. And they held your sleeves up. Yeah, have you never my mom was like a biller from my dad’s practice. She

Megan
had these like my mom did not have that fancy of a job.

Andie
So that’s what my mom wore, but they were also famous or favorite popular and like the 1920s for people who did a lot of typing like businessmen. They’d roll up their sleeves and they had these like clamps that kept their sleeves up.

Stephie
You need this, that trustee to come with those as part of the the $100 price for the dress demand sleeve enhancers. 100 100 to $125 for this dress, yes. enhancers.

Megan
I just started a Google sleeve binders clothing and I don’t recommend doing that. Now we know Google came up with it came up with compression shirts for men to hide their man boobs.

Andie
Yeah. Because apparently that’s the thing that we need to do. They’re called officially they’re called sleeve garters.

Megan
Okay. I have seen those unmet like dresher

Andie
Yeah, but they had them for women. They were huge in the 80s they’re like, they they’re they’re metal and they’re like springy, and they’ll pinch your arm hair and a hot second.

Stephie
Guys, I just googled sleeve garters and one of the ads that came up like at the top like the

Megan
zebra print crash list.

Andie
bodystocking Excuse me. I’m on my phone right now. I got to see

Megan
I got one more podcast episode is just gonna have to be Stephie and Megan Google stuff.

Stephie
fuck is happening to the internet? Oh, man. Oh my god. Well, okay, well, thank you for joining joining me down this rabbit trail because I couldn’t I couldn’t let this episode finish out without talking about nap dresses, and apparently, all that that entails

Unknown Speaker
sleeve garters are available at walmart.com if you are interested, interested in purchasing the sleeve. We need to get you guys a sponsored ad from Hill House and walmart.com.

Next week’s episode

Stephie
Perfect. They got together. It really fits our brand. Oh my goodness. Oh. So next week, we’re going to spend some time getting nosy about each other. And we’re going to start with Megan interviewing me.

Megan
Yes, I’m going to have lots of juicy questions and I’m not gonna let you see them ahead of time. Excellent. In the meantime, leave us a review on Apple podcasts and listen to us on your favorite platform. You can also follow us on social media at IRSIpodcast or send us an email at idratherstayinpodcast@gmail.com we’d love to hear from you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai